[gme]

Still feels wrong that Scotland, Ireland and SA ended up in the same group, compared to Group D. As a supported of first SA, then Scotland, it was never going to be an easy outcome.

Whilst i admit it is a pretty hard draw this time Scotland have had easy draws for the last two world cups so cant really complain.

There have been some classic matches already in the WC with the IRE v SA one being a game for the ages. The Fiji v Wales one was up there for entertainment as well.

Looking like Eng are going to have Fiji in 1/4s which is preferable to Wales. I think we will get to the semis, so much so that i have booked to go out to Paris for finals weekend.

All the moaning from the old guard about the game being ruined by new rules and having gone soft is getting proved complete bollocks.

Modern rugby is alive and well.

[andy moles]

It'll be interesting to see how England approach the Fiji game tactically (assuming that is indeed what happens).

Will they go back to a power dominated kick fest, or will they dare to play a bit more expansively, which if they don't execute well (and let's not forget that before the last 15 minutes against Japan, England looked like they couldn't attack a sandwich) could play into Fiji's hands?

I guess the Samoa match will be a dress rehearsal and maybe show their intent.

[Teaboy]

or will they dare to play a bit more expansively,

That’s a rhetorical question, right? This is an England side that had a penalty in the opposition 22 in the first 3 mins (against a side they had scored an average of 7 tries against) and they went for the 3 points.

[andy moles]

It is said they are 'moving in the right direction'.

They did some running and passing against, um, Chile.

You never know. 

[gme]

We wont play expansive rugby. Everyone getting excited about Smith at 15 and it wont happen except in already won or easy games.

Ford, Farrell 10/12 kick and defend will become our go to as the tournament progresses.

[Andy W]

I’ve just watched Wales v Aus on itv recorded after watching it live on French TV, the difference in the commentaries is massive… I’ll continue with the French TV. ITV so dull, not much passion or excitement. Bit like England really

[spidermonkey09]

Dont think it's unreasonable to play to your strengths in knockout rugby. The blueprint for this world cup for England is 2007 where they ground their way to (another...) final they should probably have won. No suggestion they'll do that here but a semi final would be a good result given our shitness. I was sceptical when they got rid of Jones but the state of Australia suggests probably the right call.

[andy moles]

Just wishful thinking from me as a non-English person who would rather see them entertainingly defeated than boringly victorious.

[spidermonkey09]

Don't worry, there's every chance you'll see them boringly defeated very soon 

[gme]

What people think is boring Rugby is unfortunately what wins tournaments. Fiji play the type of rugby everyone loves to watch but don't win anything.

Good kicking and good defence has proven to be a winner over and over again. You get the odd game that breaks this rule but not many.

I don't think its boring at all, the IRE v SA game wasn't particularly expansive but was gripping from start to finish. Its intensity that games need and that can come without a lot of fancy trys.

[Br0mley]

What people think is boring Rugby is unfortunately what wins tournaments. Fiji play the type of rugby everyone loves to watch but don't win anything.

Good kicking and good defence has proven to be a winner over and over again. You get the odd game that breaks this rule but not many.

I don't think its boring at all, the IRE v SA game wasn't particularly expansive but was gripping from start to finish. Its intensity that games need and that can come without a lot of fancy trys.

Not sure I agree, Fiji have beaten England, Australia and should have beaten Wales. I think there's a really good chance that they beat England in the quarters.

Good kicking and a solid defence gets you so far, but you need another element to your game as well. SA have an unreal pack, France have flair, Ireland have an incredibly precise attack. England and Wales don't have any of those elements.

Agreed that non-expansive rugby can be interesting, it just watches a bit more like a chess match than really open rugby.

[andy moles]

I don't think its boring at all, the IRE v SA game wasn't particularly expansive but was gripping from start to finish. Its intensity that games need and that can come without a lot of fancy trys.

Absolutely, a great example of a brilliant low-scoring game. But not many games hit the levels of that one. All else being equal, I think most of us would rather watch two teams playing with speed and ambition, even if there aren't many tries scored, than a kick and set piece dominated slugfest.

[andy moles]

And on the 'let's hear it for exciting rugby' front, France are now saying they're confident Dupont will able to play in the QF 

[Stabbsy]

Listened to this last night :-

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000628588189

It’s an interview with a South African club rugby coach, slightly out of date as it was before the SA v Ireland match with some poor/biased predictions. Ignoring that bit, there’s some really interesting stuff on tactics towards the end of the podcast, explaining why different teams at the World Cup are playing in the way they do. Also a slightly different view on France from the standard one. Couple of sections where I had to go back and listen again as there was so much to digest. Either way, I learnt a lot. Well worth a listen.

[andy moles]

That was a pretty incredible weekend of matches, but sadly none of them finished the way I wanted (apart from Wales v Argentina, about which I was fairly indifferent).

Hard not to see the semis as a training run for a SA v NZ final.

[SA Chris]

Would have loved Wales to win, if they had played  the whole match like they did in the last 10 minutes they would have taken it.

Yesterday was a nailbiter, brilliant play from both sides, but SA deserved the win I think.

[spidermonkey09]

Conversely I was delighted Wales lost  Never have to see Biggar yapping at the ref ever again.

France and Ireland threw away their respective games really. Ireland played 20 mins against 14 and dominated but didn't put points on the board. A few inexplicable errors (Sexton missed kick, knockon on halfway line from the dropout) combined with some inspired defence (how did Barrett hold that driving maul up?!). NZ probably just about the better side, so clinical in attack and amazing defence.

Similarly France only put 3 points on the board when Etzebeth was sinbinned and were poor under the high ball which directly led to two SA tries. SA were living on scraps in the first half and somehow only went in at halftime 3 behind. Again, so clinical. France were all over them like a rash between 40 and 60 mins but only scored one penalty again; kept coughing the ball up and SA defence was incredible. That sliced Jalibert penalty, the Ramos dropout out on the full...set against SA just bulldozing their way over when they could have taken the 3 in front of the sticks. They were lucky with a few decisions at the end but it happens. In the end the power told. You have to hand it to them as much as don't like it!

Bit depressing that after 4 years of NH dominance we're looking at a likely NZ SA final. That said it would be pretty funny if England turn over SA and NZ on their way to the world cup!

[andy moles]

Sad to say it, but I thought Ireland did not deserve to win. They just weren't as accurate or clinical as they are at their best. Unsettled perhaps partly by the NZ defence and savage breakdown work, and partly by the occasion. It's gutting that despite how excellent they've been, it goes down as just yet another QF exit.

I thought that France should have won. All South Africa's first half tries came from chaos - you can't argue that they are brilliant at executing opportunities, but there was a little bit of luck in the bounce of the ball as well. And I thought SA's last penalty should definitely have gone the other way. But they ground France down in the second half and France's attack got blunt.

I don't really care much who wins now. Conflicted about England v SA - I sort of want England as underdogs to prevent another 4 years of SA as world champions, but on the other hand it would feel like such an injustice for England to reach a final on the back of one big win, when Ireland and France have been consistently in another class. Anyway it hardly matters, as SA will absolutely hump them. Likewise I'd like Argentina as underdogs to beat NZ, but I've got no real emotional investment in Argentina winning.

[Wellsy]

SA vs France was an amazing match

Upsets can happen but SA vs NZ seems like a bit of a given for the final and I'd call SA to win really. I think France could have won it too had they got past SA but I don't see anyone else getting close tbh

[SA Chris]

Plus there was a complete schoolboy kick from France that could have cost them a try.

[spidermonkey09]

Part of me wonders whether the Eng SA game might be quite close and England could even turn them over given the short turnaround, tired SA team, 'already played their final' feeling. Eng would obviously have to play the game of their lives as well.

The other, more accurate part of me thinks SA will win by about 40 points. 

[andy moles]

Part of me wonders whether the Eng SA game might be quite close and England could even turn them over given the short turnaround, tired SA team, 'already played their final' feeling. Eng would obviously have to play the game of their lives as well.

The other, more accurate part of me thinks SA will win by about 40 points. 

Yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out quite tight, if England set piece and defence holds up and they get a bit of fortune off a high ball or two. But it's still so hard to imagine them beating South Africa at any style of game.

[SA Chris]

Be interesting to see, I thought England had a harder time against Fiji than I expected.

[spidermonkey09]

Part of me wonders whether the Eng SA game might be quite close and England could even turn them over given the short turnaround, tired SA team, 'already played their final' feeling. Eng would obviously have to play the game of their lives as well.

The other, more accurate part of me thinks SA will win by about 40 points. 

Yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out quite tight, if England set piece and defence holds up and they get a bit of fortune off a high ball or two. But it's still so hard to imagine them beating South Africa at any style of game.

They beat SA in 2021 when Marcus Smith kicked the winning penalty but that was very nip and tuck and from memory wasn't there a dodgy yellow card for SA?

On closer inspection I think that game was Tuilagis last international try, until he scored in the Fiji QF. perhaps a good omen...

[gme]

What an amazing weekend that was culminating in one of the best games of rugby i have ever seen. If it was like that all the time i suggest rugby would be a genuine world sport.

For once in my life i was cheering for France as the way they play is without doubt a high point for the sport. But SA just know how to win games and slowly turned the screw. France only let down was under the high ball and the Boks penalised them for this.

England into the semis and France and Ireland out (wales too but that was expected). We played well and the much maligned Farrell showed why hes the captain and essential to the team, needs to be kept at 10.

Smith did ok at 15 but cant see him starting against the Boks as i suspect it will be a kicking game.

Our biggest issue is at 9, we just do not have a world level player at that position and its crucial.

Happier to be facing the Boks than France in the semis, i think we would not be able to defend against the intensity and type of rugby the french are playing but maybe just maybe we can against SA.

Off to Paris now for finals weekend, tickets are available for bronze final if anyone is thinking about it.