UKBouldering.com

Many people who don't use UKB because of its culture - why, and how to fix?? (Read 63801 times)

rich d

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1313
  • Karma: +80/-1
Was wondering where Fiend had got to..

bloody hell, not posting in the Balls to Fiend football thread anymore

shark

Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8744
  • Karma: +629/-17
  • insect overlord #1
Just 36 hours to go till his ban is lifted


stone

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 733
  • Karma: +49/-3
I noticed in that Careless Talk podcast they chatted about UKB and said it suffers from anonymity causing people to write stuff they wouldn't say face-to-face.

My impression is that people on here don't do much to conceal who they really are and other climbers probably could quickly find out. I've wittered on plenty about how I've not agreed with much derogatory "bants" I've seen on here. I'm not convinced though that (the minimal anyway) anonymity has much to do with it.

I was interested though that the podcast host seemed to think there might be something to fix.

dunnyg

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1529
  • Karma: +91/-7
I guess people who self promote on various online channels may have a significantly different view from people who don't on anonymity? It's a personal preference thing I think, and for me it isn't so I can slag off whoever with impunity, but the risk/reward of posting under my real name isn't worth it.

Maybe I'm in a bit of denial as working out who I am would be fairly trivial for anyone who was bothered, but I guess it doesn't immediately pop up in a Google search for example.

Platforms like Instagram can offer equal amounts of anonymity, it is just less apparent a lot of the time.

I think the option of anonymity is a good thing in general though.



Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4384
  • Karma: +147/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
I'm surprised at that tbh, I only know a few people on here in person but I don't think there are many people thst *use* anonymity to hide behind.

Were still a good way from UKC!

But aye, people come and people go, but I guess it maybe does feel like some regulars have moved away and not so many have taken their place.

I used to really appreciate the fact that a lot of really top end boulders were on here giving advice etc.

scragrock

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 325
  • Karma: +45/-0
Interesting one :-\
Not sure that focusing on anonymity is the key to highlighting/fixing {if you feel UKB is broken} things.

I certainly do Not post as much as i used to, finding UKB to a bit.....erm Judgey?

Perhaps we could be more generous with our comments, remembering that {Bots aside} we are all human.

I always found Aiden to be a nice lad, fairly thoughtful in what he does.

Recently watched Adam's repeat of Bon Voyage and was saddened {mentioned in another thread} by James Pearsons very real hang-up on a mistake he made some 15 years previous. Maybe if we all had waited and let the dust settle at the time, Dave could have had a simple conversation face to face with him, allowing the younger man room to rethink/readjust and move on without the pain of mob rule.

Anyway that's all, carry on :)

mrjonathanr

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5442
  • Karma: +247/-6
  • Getting fatter, not fitter.

Recently watched Adam's repeat of Bon Voyage and was saddened {mentioned in another thread} by James Pearsons very real hang-up on a mistake he made some 15 years previous. Maybe if we all had waited and let the dust settle at the time, Dave could have had a simple conversation face to face with him, allowing the younger man room to rethink/readjust and move on without the pain of mob rule.

Complete agreement on this, but I think itís a function of the sense of remove from the impact of your speech on the internet, not this forum per se. And offensive comments people would bottle to say to your face? Behind a keyboard, not a moniker, is the reason imo

SamT

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2116
  • Karma: +101/-0

I know a fair number of the old guard that quite possibly lurk  a little still, and their reasons for not posting etc are not a product of any change on the UKb side, just more that they have for one reason or another, much less time on their hand than they used to.  Increased job responsibility, kids, etc etc.  Along with a general desire to wean themselves away from what can amount to inorndinate amounts of time online, arguing the toss over something essentially trivial, albeit often funny in UKb's case.



jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: +332/-1
    • On Steep Ground
I do not understand why people use google-able nicks on forums.

Any human can figure out who I am, if they want  to (or just ask me if not). But reversely I certainly don't want my nicks on socials to be easily googleable.

This is not hard to understand.

(And nicks don't change much what people are willing to commit to text. The worst flame-war I've seen on a forum chiefly involved two friends with opposite view-points who lived on different floors in the same apartement building.)

stone

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 733
  • Karma: +49/-3
I do not understand why people use google-able nicks on forums.
Any human can figure out who I am, if they want  to (or just ask me if not). But reversely I certainly don't want my nicks on socials to be easily googleable.
This is not hard to understand.
(And nicks don't change much what people are willing to commit to text. The worst flame-war I've seen on a forum chiefly involved two friends with opposite view-points who lived on different floors in the same apartement building.)
I agree with you to some extent, but I do think being transparent and public causes many people to stop and think -is this really a statement I want to be associated with? -and if not ought I really to be making it?

Probably not relevant here, but I think if there is some issue regarding public policy or whatever, then having real people publicly putting forward a viewpoint, makes that viewpoint a lot more compelling -to me anyway. I realise it's not a universal privilege to be able to safely do that though.

Regarding Google-able social media presence, before I had any social media accounts, I was emailed by someone I knew through work who lives in California. He congratulated me on getting up a climb. I was baffled. He sent me a link to an affectionate piss-take someone had written on UKC. It had my full name (I'm probably the only person with that name).

What struck me is that the author evidently was aware that Google-ability was an issue since the author had himself used a nom-de-plume. I was initially a bit spooked because his nom-de-plume seemed like an actual name but not someone I knew of. I thought there was someone out there who knew all about me who I hadn't a clue about. Over a decade later, that piss-take is still there, so I have no hope of hiding what I'm really like (not that I could realistically anyway :) ). https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/stone_climbs_stone-430503

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4284
  • Karma: +332/-1
    • On Steep Ground
...
I agree with you to some extent, but I do think being transparent and public causes many people to stop and think -is this really a statement I want to be associated with? -and if not ought I really to be making it?
...

I have no problem with my statements being associated with my name, but it's an unecessary distraction when students who are beginner climbers figure out how much I climb and at what level (thanks google...).

slab_happy

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1117
  • Karma: +146/-1
I noticed in that Careless Talk podcast they chatted about UKB and said it suffers from anonymity causing people to write stuff they wouldn't say face-to-face.

My impression is that people on here don't do much to conceal who they really are and other climbers probably could quickly find out. I've wittered on plenty about how I've not agreed with much derogatory "bants" I've seen on here. I'm not convinced though that (the minimal anyway) anonymity has much to do with it.

I was interested though that the podcast host seemed to think there might be something to fix.

I think it's one of those beliefs that seems like "common sense", that of course people must be more prone to being abusive if they're anonymous online and that forcing people to use their legal names would improve that -- but research keeps on not showing that, especially when it comes to communities with "persistent pseudonyms" (like UKB).

A friend of mine has worked in the field that's now usually called Trust & Safety (formerly known as Abuse) for decades, and this is one of the topics that makes her go feral.

A few samples of the research:

https://coralproject.net/blog/the-real-name-fallacy/

https://globalnews.ca/news/2855416/forget-anonymity-internet-trolls-are-more-abusive-when-using-their-real-names-study-finds/ -- reporting on https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0155923

https://techcrunch.com/2012/07/29/surprisingly-good-evidence-that-real-name-policies-fail-to-improve-comments

I agree with you to some extent, but I do think being transparent and public causes many people to stop and think -is this really a statement I want to be associated with? -and if not ought I really to be making it?

Consider how that applies to anyone who wants to discuss, say, being LGBTQ+, experiences of mental illness or neurodiversity, being a survivor of sexual trauma or domestic violence, experiences of discrimination, etc. etc. etc..

There are a lot of things that people might very understandably want and need to be able to discuss without necessarily wanting it to come up instantly when a potential employer -- or a stalker, or a violent ex -- Googles their name.

Dac

Offline
  • **
  • player
  • Posts: 83
  • Karma: +15/-0
I donít believe that having to use your real name would have a positive affect on Ďthe cultureí on this or any other forum. I am not a big forum user, my experiences are limited mostly to UKB, UKC and singletrackworld (a mountain bike forum), and can only speak based on personal experience, but I find this forum to be better than most, and I think the main reason for this is the relative small number of forum users.

A larger number of people gives any single individual gives a greater degree of anonymity, whether on a forum or in real life. As a analogy, if you lived in a big city you could spend your days acting like a dick, and it may rarely come back to bite you; if you live in a small village itís only going to be a matter of time before your reputation becomes known to one and all, or find yourself in the only shop /  pub / whatever being served by the individual you were being a dick to the day before.

Needing to use your name would also surely either be open to abuse (if you wish to act like a dick them simply register an account as Fred Bloggs and off you go), or require the sort of proof of identity that would mire any forum admin in all manner of GDPR issues, and frankly make most users unlikely to use the forum in the first place (would you bother registering with a forum if it required you to upload your passport or driving licence?)

slab_happy

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1117
  • Karma: +146/-1
I noticed in that Careless Talk podcast they chatted about UKB and said it suffers from anonymity causing people to write stuff they wouldn't say face-to-face.

My impression is that people on here don't do much to conceal who they really are and other climbers probably could quickly find out. I've wittered on plenty about how I've not agreed with much derogatory "bants" I've seen on here. I'm not convinced though that (the minimal anyway) anonymity has much to do with it.

I was interested though that the podcast host seemed to think there might be something to fix.

Also yeah, I think for most of us who use the board a lot, the "anonymity" here is very limited in relation to other forum users. Just off the top of my head, I can think of multiple other UKB users who've climbed with me and who know my real name and where I live.

What it does mean is that, for example, someone who's heard of me by my real name in another context can't Google me and immediately find this forum and me, say, discussing how exactly many meds I need to take to manage my depression. Because that's information which feels somewhat personal.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal