[SA Chris]

Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?

[tomtom]

1. Coops - bang on the money.

2. Fiend - I'm glad you are still listening/engaging with the thread... please take some of it in...

3. Avatars are public (anyone can see them - including the colleague who wondered why there was a red dick on a black background on my PC screen. Thanks fiend. At least it wasnt the crossfit one..)

4. There are some conflicting views here about UKB appealing to a wider (non male) audience but remaining small. Largely this means making the forum more diverse. In my view this is good, but in order to do this, you have to make it appeal to a broader group of people - in which case it becomes hard to keep it small and cliquey as some people like.

[Fiend]

2. Fiend - I'm glad you are still listening/engaging with the thread... please take some of it in...

LOL, you utter smug patronising cunt, I didn't start it for my fucking benefit. Despite sometimes arguing against hysterical knee-jerking, I know full well when something can be considered offensive, and pay due attention to convincing and sensible arguments against any position I might put forward.

[tomtom]

2. Fiend - I'm glad you are still listening/engaging with the thread... please take some of it in...

LOL, you utter smug patronising cunt, I didn't start it for my fucking benefit. Despite sometimes arguing against hysterical knee-jerking, I know full well when something can be considered offensive, and pay due attention to convincing and sensible arguments against any position I might put forward.

Apologies - but from what you posted it didn't sound like that!

Anyway, If I'd meant to be patronising there would be the odd McPaintedRedAudi gag thrown in there

[Fiend]

Fair enough. Ignore same post copied as PM, I was trying to keep some bitching off here.

[tomtom]

Fair enough. Ignore same post copied as PM, I was trying to keep some bitching off here.

No worries - ignored - no problem.

[fatneck]

To go back to the original topic... (which was actually poorly worded and doesn't make sense although I know what you were getting at Fiend!)

Is it the culture that stops people using it or the people using it?
Why do we want these people who don't use it to use it?
Are we missing out on something?
Do we want to be more PC?
Is it really important to have mass appeal/be more UKC?

What Mumra said...

I value the information that is available here and enjoy the banter etc that goes with it. It brightens my day generally. there are very very view occasions when I have felt that a thread went too far (even the religion one!). Obviously, I am a white 40 year old male i.e. not in the minority and have been posting on here for years. I am guilty of being misogynistic in the past re DFB and for what it's worth, think that the forum is probably better for not having it.

To echo what Battery said, I often feel overshadowed by the wit of others (Lagers ((Not a bad thing though))) and often don't contribute to stuff because I feel I don't have anything to add. But that doesn't stop me enjoying or laughing at it!

Most of the guys I climb with don't post on UKB but some do have an account and use it as a resource. They don't post simply because they're not interested in fora, not because of it's clique-iness...

[galpinos]

Fair enough. Ignore same post copied as PM, I was trying to keep some bitching off here.

No worries - ignored - no problem.

What?! I thought the problem was now UKB is too cuddly and you're being all nice? Aren't you meant to tell him to stick his lovingly ink-washed orc up his arse and choke on a mcnugget?

Is that better Fiend?

[slackline]

Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?

No its an occluded hint as to what* daves avatar is.

The person is looking at cards painted on what appears to be the side of a plane. 
The top card is a Joker. 
Dave climbed The Joker at Stanage Plantation a while back. 
Alexander Megos was at the crag trying the problem that day and couldn't do it.


* More my guess really though.

[Simon W]

As someone who's only notched up 80 or so posts but has checked this site at some point probably everyday for the last 10 years or so I think it's just like any other community online or not, different people use it in different ways. I've got loads of handy info over the years but I'll only post if I have a specific question or a bit info that I think is useful. I don't tend to get involved in the banter because there's a pretty obvious core of people who post most days and seem to know each other. Sometimes getting involved in the banter feels like the equivalent of walking up to a group of strangers at the wall and just joining in their conversation without even introducing yourself.

As I've only dipped in and out with posting I've never bothered to introduce myself. Quite often when people put a hint to their name in their username or post photos/vids of themselves I've realised that I know them from down the Works or out and about in the Peak. There's a fair few people on here I'd chat to in the real world but they probably wouldn't have a clue who I am as there's no clue on my profile. Maybe there's many more lurkers like me! When I joined the site I just used the first part of my email address instead of my name and I wonder if that anonymity, as with most internet forums adds to the perceived cliqueyness of the site. Not sure if it's even what people want but would more people putting their usernames as their actual names or having a photo/vid option in your profile reduce the unknown, make the community a bit broader and make people consider what they write a bit more?

[SA Chris]

Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?

No its an occluded hint as to what* daves avatar is.

The person is looking at cards painted on what appears to be the side of a plane. 
The top card is a Joker. 
Dave climbed The Joker at Stanage Plantation a while back. 
Alexander Megos was at the crag trying the problem that day and couldn't do it.

* More my guess really though.

Ah OK. Why does the Joker card have a dog on it then?

[tomtom]

Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?

No its an occluded hint as to what* daves avatar is.

The person is looking at cards painted on what appears to be the side of a plane. 
The top card is a Joker. 
Dave climbed The Joker at Stanage Plantation a while back. 
Alexander Megos was at the crag trying the problem that day and couldn't do it.

* More my guess really though.

Ah OK. Why does the Joker card have a dog on it then?

Its a tribute to Daves childhood hero, Spit the dog.

[Simon W]

Having said all that I tried to change my username to my name but couldn't, is there a way?

[galpinos]

Mark s's avatar was *NOT* directed at people who might feel marginalised by that term (unless there is a group of homosexual crossfit fanatics on here whom he was deliberately insultng - in which case then I'd apologise for even supporting his freedom of avatars). That's the difference.

It's not the case that Mark's avatar wasn't "directed at people who might feel marginalised by that term", it's the fact that it's implies it's ok to use faggot as pejorative term UKB. I don't think it is. I did as a child at school (like i_a_coops said) and probably made people feel a shit because of it, I don't want to do that anymore.

[Wood FT]

Having said all that I tried to change my username to my name but couldn't, is there a way?

PM Shark and he'll change it

[Simon W]

Will do, cheers

[Teaboy]

I don't understand why you're so bent

Homophobe! 

I am far from being a PC whatever or Guardianista but even I can see that using the word faggot in the way it was is not acceptable.

[SA Chris]

I can see that using the word faggot in the way it was is not acceptable.

Yes, if I was an offal based meat product or a bundle of firewood I would have been deeply offended by implication that I employed a varied approach to my exercise routine.

[Lund]

the now-elusive Lund

Oh, I'm here.  Just listening.  Pete, i_a_coops, Teaboy, galpinos, etc. are all making my point better than I probably can, so I've kept quiet.  I guess I may as well comment at this point, why not.

Fundamentally, it's very difficult to change, but change we must, in my opinion.  PC is not the same as evolving yourself and your language as cultures and people change.  For example: when I was at school, the phrase "pakishop" was acceptable.  It still is to some people, especially of the older generation in the harsher regions of the shire.

Anyone remember:

"Pack it in!"
"Paki's don't come in tins.  They come in banana boats."

I'm sure some of you do.  My own children will never, ever, ever, utter this phrase twice in my hearing.

On a different level, using the word "gay" to mean "crap" is wrong.  I've been (rightly) pulled up for this on this very forum - puntered by duncan, and jaspersharpe, you said:

Lund I'm in no way politically correct but is the use of "gay" as a derogatory term really necessary?

It's 2012 and it seems a bit seventies offensive these days even to me, now then now then.

So, as a result, I've made an effort to change my language.  It's difficult - ask Chris Moyles - but I think this has made me a better person, and helped me evolve from my pit-village-80s-upbringing into something at least a touch closer to the 21st century.

The UKB culture?  I think it's too heavily skewed towards that former.  A land where "cunt", "faggot", and commentary about which is the fittest competitor in the world cup IFSC 16 thread is entirely acceptable.

PC?  Rowing back on that is not PC.  Not calling disabled people retarded is not PC.  Some things are PC - I would suggest banning "elderly" for "senior citizens" is probably a step too far and IS PC for example.  But perhaps in 30 years this too will not be fair use.

[Moo]

How are we defining "Male dominated environment" ?

Is it that we are actively excluding females, or is it that the general traits, this forum exudes, are perceived as being more masculine and this is off-putting for females ?

I'm interested to know because as far as I can see, nobody has anything against there being a stronger female presence on this forum whatsoever.

Maybe defining the root of the problem is the first step towards answering it ?

Or maybe we all just like using this forum, whoever turns up, and we shouldn't worry too much about what their gender is.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah completely agree Lund.

I didn't know what this whole furore was about when I originally posted but it's certainly not over sanitisation or being "too PC" to stop people using really offensive homophobic or racist terms on here.

I'll stand by my use of the word cunt though as I know plenty of women who use it and anyway, I'd have no way of correctly describing Fiend if I stopped.

[Fiend]

Dick.

[Jaspersharpe]

Dick.

[emoji8]

[Fiend]

Lund, thanks for that reply. That actually wasn't what I was asking, I was asking for general reasons why the people you know don't visit UKB, but still it made the language issue point far better than knee-jerk puntering - and had far better examples than previous mis-comparisons. The "paki" one is interesting as that was used at school too but I too wouldn't want to use it these days.

Funnily enough I'm not actually defending the use of the word "faggot" in general, but I am - okay, was, I gave up ages ago - defending mark s's avatar as the least offensive use I've seen on it. I suggest in future any issues be settled with a wrestling contest / pit fight with mark himself.


Simon W - I think anyone can join in the banter here if they just try it, I personally welcome it from anyone. I've only been on here for 12 years but a lot of valuable contributors still seem pretty "new" too me.....they all started somewhere. Still a good point, it's hard to know how welcoming the clique is sometimes...

[lagerstarfish]

I'm not too interested in Fiend's question, but if he was asking about compression problems in Lancashire...

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.