[cha1n]

Dave, T_B, what's the reason nobody uses the moonboard (except Ben)? I've heard the holds aren't great on the joints/skin, the rest of it seems like a really good system.

[lagerstarfish]

I still think a progammable laser projector might be a more flexible option - and allow for many more holds to be put on the wall

create a JPEG for each problem (use a photo of the wall as a background template with corner markers to get alignment perfect)

https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/Electronic_Gadgets/Laser_Gadgets/Programmable_Laser_Light_Show_System_My_Effect_II_-_Red_Green_and_Purple_Laser_Custom_Annimations/

[dave]

Dave, T_B, what's the reason nobody uses the moonboard (except Ben)? I've heard the holds aren't great on the joints/skin, the rest of it seems like a really good system.

Other people's opinions might vary, but the black and white sets of holds I really don't like. The texture is much coarser than most other modern holds, and the pockets in there are about the sharpest indoor pockets I've ever seen. The older yellow set are much better but there's still some sharp shockers in there. The whole concept would work better IMO with guest holds which are nicer.

Plus, it's hard to compete with a 23year old board covered with polished '90s bendcrete holds, sawn-up banister rails, and disintegrating bits of wood pulled out of skips.

[cha1n]

Thanks Dave, that sort of echos what I've heard. Now getting twitchy about this replacing the woody at TCA, which is an excellent punter level board...

[Will Hunt]

I have the yellow set and generally like them. Two complaints: its ALL crimps; there are a small few of them that are ridiculously, outrageously tweaky (that three finger horn thing, you know the one, who the fuck's idea was that?)

[a dense loner]

The white and black holds are perfect for the warmer weather, seem a bit coarser.

[Fadanoid]

I have a moonboard in my garden built to the specs.

I only have the Black and white holds, The texture is a bit coarse but to be honest I think the angle demands a bit of texture so I can hold on to the bloody things. Yes some of the pockets are a bit sharp, but you get used to them.

I won't be able to put the leds on, whilst its weatherproof I worry that over time the damp weather/fog/mist. It would make like easier but I'm managing fine just looking at my phone and seeing the sequence on that.

The only negative about the moonboard is the frigging sandbagging of grades by certain climbers. I honestly feel that if you can't grade something properly don't post it. These arent 8b/8c problems that are going to start a big debate in magazines and on website forums if they are a bit out. It just gives the impression that you want people to think that you are a beast that climbs at such a level they have forgotten what 6a-6c feels like, when in actual fact you are posting 7a-7b problems max and calling all of them 6a.

Ahhh, i feel better for that.

[Three Nine]

Thanks Dave, that sort of echos what I've heard. Now getting twitchy about this replacing the woody at TCA, which is an excellent punter level board...

It is, and it wont trash your skin/tendons like a moon board. Please please don't just keep it to yourself, email/pester TCA and get your chums to do it too. I have done so, but they'll only take notice if lots of people bother to get in contact.

[cha1n]

Sorry 39, if past decisions are anything to go by, then it's a done deal (even more likely seeing as the thing is set to be installed in less than 2 weeks). All we can hope is that the board is moved elsewhere. If not, then hey ho, at least there is a training board, even if the holds aren't ideal. It's not like in Sheffield where you actually need your skin for the grit!

[Duma]

copied over from powerclub...

I know, not happy about seeing it go (although having said that I'm hopeful it may stay in one form or another).

Please email Paul and let him know!!

FWIW (and Paul is on here very occasionally so may reply himself) I saw him this morning when stripping the steep circuit board and they're currently mulling making a less steep woody on the board immediately to the left (ie the old mirrorboard)

Given the relatively low hold density on the MB do you think it'd be possible to add further holds between the MB positions?

[Hugh]

copied over from powerclub...

I know, not happy about seeing it go (although having said that I'm hopeful it may stay in one form or another).

Please email Paul and let him know!!

FWIW (and Paul is on here very occasionally so may reply himself) I saw him this morning when stripping the steep circuit board and they're currently mulling making a less steep woody on the board immediately to the left (ie the old mirrorboard)

Given the relatively low hold density on the MB do you think it'd be possible to add further holds between the MB positions?

Hmm, that's a start, although the old mirror board is really not steep enough to make it useful (personally speaking).

I had the same thought about adding holds; can't really comment as it's been a long while since I've seen one in the flesh, but it certainly looks like stuff could be squeezed in.

[cha1n]

I think there are additional holes drilled to hold the LEDs, so probably a no regarding additional holds. I suppose it's just a case of waiting to see what happens, it's certainly a negative that the existing woody has no system being used to log people's climbs and without having other people's problems to try it can get a bit dull. I think the feedback has been mixed enough that I'm willing to be open minded regarding the new board (seeing as it's happening regardless of what everyone thinks).

In reality, the woody users are hardly the people putting the most money into TCAs pockets and it is a business after all.

[Duma]

what happened to the woody book?

[Sasquatch]

What a frickin brilliant innovation - especially for those like me befuddled when confronted with a woodie with an immediate desire to run for the hills

I'm curious if it was Saquatch's mate Chad who first did this out in Alaska that has stimulated its subsequent development and incorporation into the official Moon Board.

Saquatch's post about it here in the forum bringing attention to it is dated the same as a post on the Moon Blog about it.  Both are 16^th January 2015.

Indeed it was my mate Chad who developed the LED system.  The app was done by the Moon guys.

We have a great group using it now and we have sessions every Thursday evening.  The board/holds/problems are all a bit funky to get used to, but I know we have all learned alot from using it and gotten far stronger.  So far we have learned to like most of the holds on the board.  They're all very different so they force you to climb differently. 

I have a moonboard in my garden built to the specs.

I only have the Black and white holds, The texture is a bit coarse but to be honest I think the angle demands a bit of texture so I can hold on to the bloody things. Yes some of the pockets are a bit sharp, but you get used to them.

I won't be able to put the leds on, whilst its weatherproof I worry that over time the damp weather/fog/mist. It would make like easier but I'm managing fine just looking at my phone and seeing the sequence on that.

The only negative about the moonboard is the frigging sandbagging of grades by certain climbers. I honestly feel that if you can't grade something properly don't post it. These arent 8b/8c problems that are going to start a big debate in magazines and on website forums if they are a bit out. It just gives the impression that you want people to think that you are a beast that climbs at such a level they have forgotten what 6a-6c feels like, when in actual fact you are posting 7a-7b problems max and calling all of them 6a.

Ahhh, i feel better for that.

Indeed they are sandbagged as S%^&. We have just decided that the grades are fictional and in no way relate to outdoor climbing.  One issue that we are having though is that two of the guys we climb with set at the local wall and the grades at the local wall have started to get a bit sandbagged as well.  We have been adding new problems and just tried to be consistent with the sandbagged versions.

[Duma]

Just had a first play on tcas. Pretty good actually, and they've put a woody on the less steep board next to it which looks better than I thought one on this board would. Lights work well too, well done sasquatch and friends.

[Three Nine]

The new woody is a very poor substitute for the excellent training facility TCA just removed, but it could end up being useful. If its going to work at all, all the positive grey footholds need to come off and replaced with a ton of utterly terrible smears (like the four metolius splatches they stuck on). Otherwise it'll be pretty redundant.

A bit of a crowd round the new moon board today, but I imagine it'll wear off in a week or two once the LED gimmick gets old. I overheard once young strong thing ask Ben 'are there any funky problems?'. Sums it up I guess. I'm sure i'll use it occasionally after the holds have been used a bit so they're less like holds on dartmoor, but i'm pretty disappointed really.

[Duma]

(Copy and paste from my reply on fb)
I had a (very) brief play, before being distracted by the bright lights to the right, and thought it was ok. It was never going to substitute for the previous woody,   it's 25 ish degrees instead of 40. That said I agree it needs worse footholds, a lot of the greys are way to good.

[Duma]

Also from a bit of a session on the Moonboard :
The app and lights are good, as are most of the hold shapes (couple of pockets I'll be avoiding) the yellow set are a great texture, black and white are pretty brutal atm (though my skin was shit today) hopefully will improve after a few weeks use.
Grades are pretty harsh, though not as samdbagged as I'd been expecting. Did some really fun problems, and added a few to my lists on the app for future attempts.

[Duma]

Hopefully you could tell the app which sets of holds you had, and what standard arrangement you had them set up in, and it would filter the problems accordingly and show you only the ones you could climb. Then you could sort them by grade/votes on quality etc

You can do all of this, though currently only for one standard orientation. You can filter by grade range, and setter, and then sort by difficulty, date, or quality. Seems a good app, worthwhile even if you didn't have the LEDs.
Heard Ben chatting about developing a set of wood holds for the moonboard while he was there so if that comes to fruition it'll be great.

[dave]

There's a set of wooden holds which have appeared in the schoolroom, as I understand they are ultimately destined for the moonboard as a symetrical set. They are a thousand time better than the existing black/white moon holds, from what I can see. The only downside is that are made of plywood so you gotta wonder how well they will last long term.

[Duma]

Hmm hope the ply set are just to check the shapes. UK hardwood all the way.

[dave]

Well he's just brought out a range of plywood campus rungs, make of that what you will.

[gme]

Why wont plywood work. I presume its just a general feeling. Engineered timbers have been pretty much proven to offer the same, if not better, structural capabilities than solid timbers. The only thing they dont perform as well in are when wet or with large temperature changes. We are seeing more and more use of engineered timber in the construction industry replacing steel.

Ben looked for a good while at hard and soft woods but it is very hard to get consistency of timber to make matching sets of holds that are always the same. The plywood gives you that consistency and is just as strong. Its not  the same plywood you use to build boards its designed for the purpose.

I think the holds are great and will be as good or better as any other wooden holds. In fact i would go as far to say that the layers in the ply actually add a nice texture to the holds that is missing from hardwood that can often be glassy.

As for the light system and app its genius. There are loads of great boards in the country with Dans at the Eden centre being the best but unless you climb on them regularly or there is a local there to point things out you waste half your session trying to work out where things go. The light system makes it so easy, plus you have an instant database of 400+ problems.

[tim palmer]

The light system makes it so easy, plus you have an instant database of 400+ problems.

pedants corner:  there are only 250 problems currently on the app, assuming you have all three sets on holds. 
 
There are >1000 problems on the website but that is with lots of different arrangements of holds.

The LEDs seem like a silly gimmick which people lose interest in pretty quickly, plus the moon holds are so coarse you couldn't do a long session on them

[Duma]

3 problems have been added in the less than 24hrs I've had the app, at that rate it'll have a 1000 by Christmas.