[creedence]

I would suggest that the heavy use of Instagram and social media is more histrionic than narcissistic.
I.E.  It seems more the need for attention, rather than the unshakable belief that they are superior to others.

How do you like them apples?!

[galpinos]

I'm just waiting for Shauna to stop posting boring 'acro yoga' with Leah and dull board problems in slow motion and get on with the FFA of Voyager... 

Have "we" not now decided that FFA demeans women's achievement? I can't remember what opinion I'm supposed to have......

[Oldmanmatt]

After setting this in motion, I realised I couldn't comment in any meaningful way; because of my position as a wall owner.
It has made very interesting reading though.

I wandered off into the wilderness before the internet really took hold, so when I climbed, I climbed for myself; much as I had done in the '80s and early '90s. The idea of reporting my bumbling, having a score card or even a log book was totally alien to me (the most I ever managed was some scrawled notes in guide books, like "this was crap" or "couldn't do it").
As was the whole forum thing. I discovered UKB by accident in 2010, whilst living in Spain and hunting for interesting venues and beta on line. Returning to the UK in 2011, I was shocked by the arrogance and confrontational attitude of many UK climbers. I suppose that language barriers might have insulated me from similar issues in other countries, but it felt very different from the scene I remembered from my youth.

I often feel, reading social  media feed, that the points of the article I originally linked to; are valid. That everything is shallow, arrogant, strutting posturing and bullshit.

But that doesn't square with my experience at the crag, where most people seem pretty much the same as they always were.

So I think the impression created by this new media, is false.

It's too easy to interpret an "enthusiastic" post as "narcissistic", a minor gripe as a major whinge etc. Short passages of text allow way too much room for imposed context by the reader.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shark]

Selfishness and narcissism are just words for different levels of self-centredness. Narcissism usually implies a higher degree of self-regard but it's all just a spectrum and if you think there's anything noble about your struggle to climb the oak you are <insert insult here>.

I prefer to think of it as quixotic rather than noble

[webbo]

Another example; I hear loads of people berate those who use forums (fair enough) so do you all feel like you are negatively affecting the culture of climbing? Of course you don't! But are you willing to accept that you might be? i.e read the Brian Cropper obit. on UKC he wasn't into forums and people asking for beta "wheres the adventure in that?" he'd say.

This isn't really relevant to what we're discussing. Brian may have had a point ten years ago about people sharing beta on public forums, arguing that the adventure was being chipped out of climbing. I refuse to believe, however, that nobody every came into the YHA in Manchester and asked what size wire you needed for route X. The game has never changed in that respect, just the way in which people shared the information. What we're talking about here is a recent explosion of empty narcissism in climbing.

They certainly would have asked what wire was needed for route X, then knicked it when Brian wasn't looking.

[Doylo]

I'm just waiting for Shauna to stop posting boring 'acro yoga' with Leah and dull board problems in slow motion and get on with the FFA of Voyager... 

She's seems to have retired from hard outside climbing. It's the feeds that are all indoors that bore me.

Slow Mo dynos in particular .

[Footwork]

I'm just waiting for Shauna to stop posting boring 'acro yoga' with Leah and dull board problems in slow motion and get on with the FFA of Voyager... 

She's seems to have retired from hard outside climbing. It's the feeds that are all indoors that bore me.

Slow Mo dynos in particular .

I feel like this is such a waste of great talent and one of the reasons why is below.

Have "we" not now decided that FFA demeans women's achievement?

Whilst it's fantastic that Shauna is psyched for comps and does so well in them at an international level is great. Yet she will always be competing against women in these comps and not men. If Shauna turned her talent to rocks then it would start eroding the idea of FFA as she would be as good as the other men doing it. Climbing on rocks is a free for all. Climbing in comps is segregated. If more women climb problems that shut down some of our strongest men I think FFA would become a thing of the past.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic. I don't follow Shauna on social media anymore because of the 'dull' stuff. I'm clearly biased though.

[r2d2]

Selfishness and narcissism are just words for different levels of self-centredness. Narcissism usually implies a higher degree of self-regard but it's all just a spectrum and if you think there's anything noble about your struggle to climb the oak you are <insert insult here>.

I prefer to think of it as quixotic rather than noble

What about fragile narcissism?

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm just waiting for Shauna to stop posting boring 'acro yoga' with Leah and dull board problems in slow motion and get on with the FFA of Voyager... 

She's seems to have retired from hard outside climbing. It's the feeds that are all indoors that bore me.

Slow Mo dynos in particular .

I feel like this is such a waste of great talent and one of the reasons why is below.

Have "we" not now decided that FFA demeans women's achievement?

Whilst it's fantastic that Shauna is psyched for comps and does so well in them at an international level is great. Yet she will always be competing against women in these comps and not men. If Shauna turned her talent to rocks then it would start eroding the idea of FFA as she would be as good as the other men doing it. Climbing on rocks is a free for all. Climbing in comps is segregated. If more women climb problems that shut down some of our strongest men I think FFA would become a thing of the past.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic. I don't follow Shauna on social media anymore because of the 'dull' stuff. I'm clearly biased though.

Ironically, she has just these few minutes past, posted on Farcebuck a picture of herself fingerboarding, on the back of a van, outdoors and wished for good conditions in the Connies this weekend.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shark]

Selfishness and narcissism are just words for different levels of self-centredness. Narcissism usually implies a higher degree of self-regard but it's all just a spectrum and if you think there's anything noble about your struggle to climb the oak you are <insert insult here>.

I prefer to think of it as quixotic rather than noble

What about fragile narcissism?

What about it?

[Footwork]

I'm just waiting for Shauna to stop posting boring 'acro yoga' with Leah and dull board problems in slow motion and get on with the FFA of Voyager... 

She's seems to have retired from hard outside climbing. It's the feeds that are all indoors that bore me.

Slow Mo dynos in particular .

I feel like this is such a waste of great talent and one of the reasons why is below.

Have "we" not now decided that FFA demeans women's achievement?

Whilst it's fantastic that Shauna is psyched for comps and does so well in them at an international level is great. Yet she will always be competing against women in these comps and not men. If Shauna turned her talent to rocks then it would start eroding the idea of FFA as she would be as good as the other men doing it. Climbing on rocks is a free for all. Climbing in comps is segregated. If more women climb problems that shut down some of our strongest men I think FFA would become a thing of the past.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic. I don't follow Shauna on social media anymore because of the 'dull' stuff. I'm clearly biased though.

Ironically, she has just these few minutes past, posted on Farcebuck a picture of herself fingerboarding, on the back of a van, outdoors and wished for good conditions in the Connies this weekend.

Well let's see what comes of it then!

[r2d2]

Selfishness and narcissism are just words for different levels of self-centredness. Narcissism usually implies a higher degree of self-regard but it's all just a spectrum and if you think there's anything noble about your struggle to climb the oak you are <insert insult here>.

I prefer to think of it as quixotic rather than noble

I was just thinking that viewing someone as selfish or self centred or narcissistic was one way thinking about it, but there's a certain fragility to the people doing the posting sometimes.

That aside I think your Oak posts / mission and openness about training etc on here is very un narcissistic and makes an interesting and inspiring story. I hope you do it!

What about fragile narcissism?

What about it?

I was just thinking that viewing someone as selfish or self centred or narcissistic was one way thinking about it, but there's a certain fragility to the people doing the posting sometimes.

That aside I think your Oak posts / mission and openness about training etc on here is very un narcissistic and makes an interesting and inspiring story. I hope you do it!

[petejh]

I'm just waiting for Shauna to stop posting boring 'acro yoga' with Leah and dull board problems in slow motion and get on with the FFA of Voyager... 

She's seems to have retired from hard outside climbing. It's the feeds that are all indoors that bore me.

Slow Mo dynos in particular .

I feel like this is such a waste of great talent and one of the reasons why is below.

Have "we" not now decided that FFA demeans women's achievement?

Whilst it's fantastic that Shauna is psyched for comps and does so well in them at an international level is great. Yet she will always be competing against women in these comps and not men. If Shauna turned her talent to rocks then it would start eroding the idea of FFA as she would be as good as the other men doing it. Climbing on rocks is a free for all. Climbing in comps is segregated. If more women climb problems that shut down some of our strongest men I think FFA would become a thing of the past.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic. I don't follow Shauna on social media anymore because of the 'dull' stuff. I'm clearly biased though.

Ironically, she has just these few minutes past, posted on Farcebuck a picture of herself fingerboarding, on the back of a van, outdoors and wished for good conditions in the Connies this weekend.

Well let's see what comes of it then!

Oh you'll hear about it.. noteworthy send or not.

[slackline]

You could delete your FB account though? I did that a month ago and life hasn't changed one bit.

Quitting Farcebook might make you happier according to this study from the Danish Happiness Research Institute of 1095 people who used the site daily.

Big pinch of salt required though as the study has a lot of limitations.

[a dense loner]

Not really, I'm not on farcebook and I'm the happiest guy I know

[shark]

Selfishness and narcissism are just words for different levels of self-centredness. Narcissism usually implies a higher degree of self-regard but it's all just a spectrum and if you think there's anything noble about your struggle to climb the oak you are <insert insult here>.

I prefer to think of it as quixotic rather than noble

I was just thinking that viewing someone as selfish or self centred or narcissistic was one way thinking about it, but there's a certain fragility to the people doing the posting sometimes.

That aside I think your Oak posts / mission and openness about training etc on here is very un narcissistic and makes an interesting and inspiring story. I hope you do it!

What about fragile narcissism?

What about it?

I was just thinking that viewing someone as selfish or self centred or narcissistic was one way thinking about it, but there's a certain fragility to the people doing the posting sometimes.

That aside I think your Oak posts / mission and openness about training etc on here is very un narcissistic and makes an interesting and inspiring story. I hope you do it!

Oh dear - I see you've been Mumraahed

The main thing is that Stu has downgraded climbers from being narcissistic to selfish (as if that wasn't obvious) - though they are just words.

[r2d2]

Haha mumrahed. Pfffft.

 

[cjsheps]

The Spanish seem particularly shameless about the "empty-posting". A good friend (and damn good climber - 8c at 18) has just posted onto facebook a shining example. A photo taken a year ago, of a project he hasn't done yet, talking about looking forward to the Semana Santa week off.

In general, it seems to be harmless, but there's one girl in Madrid who's up to her tits in sponsors, but climbs about 6a. By "playing the game", complete with all the hashtag bullshit turned up to 11, she's managed to sell herself as some glamourous wad. "Top 3 in the Zona Centro championships" is a neat way of saying "last, and fell off the third move of the route". She's robbing some really promising climbers of the limelight and making a bad name for female climbers in the area.

Normally, I'd leave said person nameless, but since she cheated in her last competition in order to make finals, here's Tiana's instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAK66X0MW9l/?taken-by=tianalv96

#wtfisthisshithaseveryonelosttheirminds

[lagerstarfish]

Its all life.

Ooo.. cryptic. Where are you going with this? Narcissism and endeavour being two sides of the same coin / dependent on the observer?

nothing clever or cryptic - when you made that comment on your attitude towards the work/climbing/life/risk balance, I thought (and still do) that it was the most perceptive and helpful thing I had ever read on the subject

I think it also applies to the balance of the value of stuff that we do for ourselves, for other people and for the way we value how other people to view us

simples

and for further thought - I think the current fashion of sharing, posting, tagging, narcissism etc. is no worse than the older climbing related habits of alcohol and drug misuse - and is possibly less harmful in the long run

[cjsheps]

I have very little to add that hasn't already been said.

I would like to point out that, as a group, we seem fine with someone dedicating the most useful and productive hours/weeks/months/years of their life to sculpting their own body into a shape that allows them to pursue their own dreams by achieving a goal that, frankly, only they care about. 

Yet if they post a picture on instagram we call that narcissistic.

I don't think it's the narcissicm per se that leaves a bitter taste; more that people are supposing that their selfish pursuits are important in the scheme of things. It's one thing to jump for joy at doing your first 1-4-7 or whatever, but it's another to vomit that information onto the internet, complete with hashtags to make sure your post "affects" as much people as possible.

N.B. If this thread has proven one thing, it's that people definitely do care. Just not necessarily in the intended way...

[r2d2]

I'd like to make time in this thread to mention how fantastic chalk is, particularly that stuff that costs about fifty quid an ounce.

[lagerstarfish]

I'd like to make time in this thread to mention how fantastic chalk is, particularly that stuff that costs about fifty quid an ounce.

does an ounce of that boost your ego as much as that shit that costs fifty quid per gram?

[tomtom]

I'd like to make time in this thread to mention how fantastic chalk is, particularly that stuff that costs about fifty quid an ounce.

does an ounce of that boost your ego as much as that shit that costs fifty quid per gram?

No. And it's rubbish when you rub it on your gums too.

[dave]

The Spanish seem particularly shameless about the "empty-posting". A good friend (and damn good climber - 8c at 18) has just posted onto facebook a shining example. A photo taken a year ago, of a project he hasn't done yet, talking about looking forward to the Semana Santa week off.

In general, it seems to be harmless, but there's one girl in Madrid who's up to her tits in sponsors, but climbs about 6a. By "playing the game", complete with all the hashtag bullshit turned up to 11, she's managed to sell herself as some glamourous wad. "Top 3 in the Zona Centro championships" is a neat way of saying "last, and fell off the third move of the route". She's robbing some really promising climbers of the limelight and making a bad name for female climbers in the area.

Normally, I'd leave said person nameless, but since she cheated in her last competition in order to make finals, here's Tiana's instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAK66X0MW9l/?taken-by=tianalv96

#wtfisthisshithaseveryonelosttheirminds

But has she jumped to the top hold of the Joker off the block though?

[r2d2]

I'd like to make time in this thread to mention how fantastic chalk is, particularly that stuff that costs about fifty quid an ounce.

does an ounce of that boost your ego as much as that shit that costs fifty quid per gram?

No. And it's rubbish when you rub it on your gums too.

The bloke selling it promised me it was so much purer than the floury shit I usually buy