[abarro81]

  with habrich's post by and large.

Muencher - no one will want to name names of Brits who might be examples of the stuff discussed in the article but I can PM you examples if you want. As mentioned in habrich's post, Emmett would be a prime example from days gone by. A global example would be Sasha DG - used to be good, has done fuck all for a long time now other than post crap on social media, probably still gets shit loads of attention. If I see a friend like one of those bullshit non-posts i die a little inside.

I suspect the difference between now and 5/10/20 years ago is just that its now more prevalent - instead of a few people building a profile rather than a ticklist nowadays everyone is instgramming photos of routes they did last year to make up for not having done anything recently

Rich d - the Bishrat article isnt really abiut sponsorship, more a general commentary. I fuess the pooch post is fairly sponsorship based though probably

[Wood FT]

What sponsored lankatron said

[rich d]

Tell me you're not in marketing

nope, cant be arsed with all the facebook, instagram and twitter updates that has no doubt become part of the job.

[Oldmanmatt]

the sponsors want the faces that will best sell their product/lifestyle.

Not climbing but another 'lifestyle' sport, surfing, where the top female Brazilian surfer wasn't considered pretty enough to get full sponsorship.

I watched that sometime ago.
I must be wired differently, because I think she's quite attractive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Doylo]

A global example would be Sasha DG - used to be good, has done fuck all for a long time now other than post crap on social media, probably still gets shit loads of attention. If I see a friend like one of those bullshit non-posts i die a little inside.

Yes but how we would we ever motivate without constant remainders to 'push our limits'.

[r2d2]

It was more fun when I got to read about new problems and routes in the regional breakdown in On the Edge, those morsels of information used to leave you hungry for more. The spraying, sandbagging, false modesty, fragile ego's that's always been the same, I'm not sure climbing or the humans doing it has changed but just the way it's piped into our 30 second attention spans. Anyway f&ck this I need to check FB, hang on a minute what was I saying, is that someone climbing barefoot oh well enough of that now yawn etc etc etc

[ashtond6]

Interesting article, a good read BUT...

This has always gone on surely? The Internet just makes it lazy
Look at Jerry vs Mark Leach for example

Mark recently posted a photo of himself and Andy pollitt to Facebook with a caption along the lines of 'a legend with a book about tobe released, and a punter'.
Arguably Mark was the hardest climber of that generation, but was less interested in chasing the fame

[Will Hunt]

I don't really have a problem with all the Instagram bollocks at the top level. Its the market and it obviously gets results for the companies sponsoring the climbers or their marketing departments wouldn't keep pushing them to do it (I believe these companies have ways of tracking their "reach" and where their clicks are coming from?)

What gets me is how insipid it all is. Climbing seems to have become so much more clean. All of these posts on social media are so self affirming and happy-clappy. Riddled with these ridiculously perky hashtags. Its like the fucking teletubbies are running the accounts. The worst thing about this is that it has bled into mainstream climbing culture such that there are loads of people doing it now. Everyone takes themselves so seriously and its only going to get worse. These people coming to the start of their adulthood now are practically social media natives. They have never experienced life without the narcissism that social media propagates.

The rise of instagram, social media is a good/ bad thing. It's good as it gives climbers a quick way of knowing what's been cleaned/ done/ beta and that long kick up the arse needed to venture out. I'm guilty as the next, having climbed 6 years at Caley and never once gone to West Chevin. Dan Turner posted a picture on social media of a great looking line and hey, Will and I were down there the next evening enjoying a few climbs. Have we become less adventurous? I'm pretty sure 'To me to you' at Brimham has never been so popular, yet in the past couple months it's had a flurry of ascents thanks to people posting pictures and beta on social media. Or maybe it was always as popular before instagram, just no one would know when it had last been climbed.

This from Ben doesn't really fit with the Bisharat and Pooch posts, but it is probably brought to mind as we were moaning about it at the crag yesterday. Social media seems to home people in on a select number of problems, such that there are tonnes of things around the region of great apparent quality that are sadly neglected. It is a worrying fact that there are a growing number of young climbers out there who equate the absence of a high definition, multiple camera angle video of a problem with an absence of quality. It might be taking the logic a step too far but this might go a little way to explaining why The Joker is trashed and why Brownian Motion is practically unheard of (with the equally impressive arete to the left looking a bit grubby). Having stood under both, I know which one I'd rather put the effort into.

[shark]

As mentioned in habrich's post, Emmett would be a prime example from days gone by.

Christ, was it that obvious? In Tim's defence, I have been assured by people, that should know, that he is a genuinely world-class ice-climber.

He's definitely the one having the most fun

[petejh]

A world-class ice climber?!    Damned with faint praise!

That's like saying somebody's world-class at decorating.

Ice climbing reached its cutting edge about 25 years ago and everyone knows it (don't say Helmacken - a bolted sport-climbing-on-ice oddity)

[Muenchener]

These people coming to the start of their adulthood now are practically social media natives. They have never experienced life without the narcissism that social media propagates.

You're seriously suggesting adolescents weren't narcissistic before social media? Get a grip.

[Wood FT]

I'd say it's much more widespread now because of social media yes

[r2d2]

I'd say it's much more widespread now because of social media yes

Widespread narcissism? Sounds contagious.

[Will Hunt]

These people coming to the start of their adulthood now are practically social media natives. They have never experienced life without the narcissism that social media propagates.

You're seriously suggesting adolescents weren't narcissistic before social media? Get a grip.

At no point as a teenager did I or anybody I knew spend hours and hours sharing pictures of our own face in the hope that somebody else would "like" them.
It might be a trait that was always there in the background but it's now a hobby in its own right and the kids are masters of it.

[tomtom]

I don't really have a problem with all the Instagram bollocks at the top level. Its the market and it obviously gets results for the companies sponsoring the climbers or their marketing departments wouldn't keep pushing them to do it (I believe these companies have ways of tracking their "reach" and where their clicks are coming from?)

What gets me is how insipid it all is. Climbing seems to have become so much more clean. All of these posts on social media are so self affirming and happy-clappy. Riddled with these ridiculously perky hashtags. Its like the fucking teletubbies are running the accounts. The worst thing about this is that it has bled into mainstream climbing culture such that there are loads of people doing it now. Everyone takes themselves so seriously and its only going to get worse. These people coming to the start of their adulthood now are practically social media natives. They have never experienced life without the narcissism that social media propagates.

#oldgit

[tomtom]

All very interesting.

The only thing that's changed is the immediacy and reach of the media - not anyone's actions or motivations.

In every sport, business, club, pub darts team etc... There are always people who self promote to an annoying degree for a variety of reasons from narcissism to £££. I bet 10k years ago around the camp fire there were grunts of discontent about how the grumpy small headed one was always telling every one he was the best hunter etc...

[Wood FT]

I'd say it's much more widespread now because of social media yes

Widespread narcissism? Sounds contagious.

it is!

[Duncan campbell]

I have seen examples of non-pros doing the whole tagging brands and hashtagging and posing topless and i do find it disheartening but also a bit funny. In some ways it is sad that lesser pros get a bigger slice of the pie but that is the nature of the sponsorship game. You are promoting a brand, that is a major part of your job. nothing in life is for free.

However, the plus side on all this is that does it in any way affect our own personal climbing experience? For me its a no. I never see these people at the crags, even when I'm bouldering on the grit and I'd be very surprised (and actually psyched) to see them at Cloggy or Gogarth. All of this sponsorship rubbish is so far removed from my own climbing that I dont let it bother me. As long as I can still do my own thing as I always have done then its fine if people want to hashtag brands onto their photos and pretend to be pros. I guess that is what could be meant by climbing being a broad church these days.

Its a bit sad but there will always be a core of 'true believers' who climb for the right reasons and unless over-caffeinated sugary drink company starts encouraging more of its athletes to wang bolts in where they dont belong then I dont think this will be affected. I can still enjoy a kick-about on the Pembroke campsite with my mates irrespective of what is going on in premier league football.

[Wood FT]

I have seen examples of non-pros doing the whole tagging brands and hashtagging and posing topless and i do find it disheartening but also a bit funny. In some ways it is sad that lesser pros get a bigger slice of the pie but that is the nature of the sponsorship game. You are promoting a brand, that is a major part of your job. nothing in life is for free.

It's really good value money for the brands too as their 'ambassadors' do a fuck load of marketing for them for what appears to be a couple of shoes and some stickers.

[a dense loner]

The grumpy small headed hunter would never have suggested he was the best at hunting, just that the others round the campfire weren't as good as they thought. If food did become scarce the first thing he'd have done was eat the sport climbers.

[slackline]

All of this sponsorship rubbish is so far removed from my own climbing that I dont let it bother me.

  to the extent that most news of 'cutting edge first ascents' or 'significant repeats' is of litte interest to me beyond a gap filler at work to relieve the tedium (theres only so much Linux stuff I can read).

[tomtom]

The grumpy small headed hunter would never have suggested he was the best at hunting, just that the others round the campfire weren't as good as they thought. If food did become scarce the first thing he'd have done was eat the sport climbers.

:D have a wad.

[Nibile]

Hadn't noticed this thread, but Puccio's rant, when it appeared on 8a.shit nearly had me throw the laptop out of the window. My Roman ancestors had a saying for almost anything, and in her case they would have said: "excusatio non petita accusatio manifesta". An unrequested excuse ("I could have claimed more big numbers") is a self accusation.
She's probably frustrated that someone else is getting more attention despite doing fuck all on rock? Welcome to planet Eart, Alex.
Whenever money and the need to get a sponsor enter into a person's climbing, usual rules that apply to climbing (matter-of-factness, hard climbs, etc.) go out of the window, and marketing rules enter.
Pretty, handsome, easy to sell, politically correct, these are the things that count. Compromise, compromise, compromise. You basically accept to forswear the truth. You can't say that a route is shit, because your sponsors would not like it. You can't say that you crushed it to atoms, you can't say that someone doesn't deserve a sponsorship, etc. We can't be friends with everyone and we shouldn't be.
Climbing, to me, is now dominated by hypocrisy.
Maybe, and I say maybe, if Pooch hadn't turned into a burly man she would appear more often on covers. But no one dares to say that. The hordes of worshippers that praise her efforts and return after the injury make me want to puke. I see the reality behind her transformation and I don't like it.
Maybe, and I say maybe, if modern wannabe hotshots were less prone to compromise, even sponsors would change their behaviour. People should be loyal to the sport's values.
This could also include to call out frauds and question why some people are sponsored or paid despite their poor results. And if one is dropped for this, he/she should be ready to give the finger to the sponsor and go back to a simpler life, that many generations of climbers have lived before.
Of course, if you want to have a personal trainer, a physio and a filming crew that always follow you, you will need money and compromises. In the marketing world, climbers cannot change the rules, they have to obey someone else's rules.
But despite everything, one will never be let down by reality. Climb big numbers, and the rest will follow. And if it doesn't, you'll have climbed big numbers and that's all that matters for "real" climbers.

Sport values and media and publicity values do not go hand in hand.
All these slick heroes that are always on the net, always hashtagging, always praising the beauty of nature, the freedom of climbing, are nothing more than puppets. They are less free than I am.

In my dreams a true climber is someone who gets to the place, does hard shit and leaves surrounded by women, but who's also ready to doss in a cave to remain true to his values. That is: Jerry.

[petejh]

A world-class ice climber?!    Damned with faint praise!

That's like saying somebody's world-class at decorating.

The pundit in question - yet another expat Brit - doesn't do faint praise, in fact is notable for his scathing opinion on grades and climbers. That said, he has a vested interest in bigging up ice climbing as he is one of the few in this town who participate.

I'll take your word for it. I did wonder.

Presumably something like this (also referenced in the comments under Bisharat's article) is fairly badass?

Yeah that's really badass in terms of soloing, mainly 'because it's soloing sketchy steep slightly unpredictable terrain' not because of super-hard cutting edge difficulty in itself (the routes get ascents every winter: they aren't that difficult - no ice climb is anymore, not like sport or hard trad is). I climbed 'French Reality and Day After Vacacions..' plus a couple others on the Stanley Headwall around 8 years ago and I'm fairly shit, did you not see my FB update..

[Duncan campbell]

I have seen examples of non-pros doing the whole tagging brands and hashtagging and posing topless and i do find it disheartening but also a bit funny. In some ways it is sad that lesser pros get a bigger slice of the pie but that is the nature of the sponsorship game. You are promoting a brand, that is a major part of your job. nothing in life is for free.

It's really good value money for the brands too as their 'ambassadors' do a fuck load of marketing for them for what appears to be a couple of shoes and some stickers.

Is it though? How much does anyone take notice of what Sponsored heroes wear? I'm not about to buy a pair of 5.10 Moccasyms because Ned climbed 8B in them. Nor am I going to buy a pair of bright orange Marmot trousers because Mawson wears them. Sometimes I'll see a few people using gear that I think looks good/appropriate for what I want and if they are using them for the type of things Im keen for then I might take notice but apart from that it doesn't work on me.

Plus you gotta give them something to do in between training sessions!

In many ways with people getting sponsorship and being able to go climbing loads and never have to sit in an office I think "Good effort and Fair doos" - Its not necessarily something I'd want to do myself but I'm the chump who gets up at 6am every morning to do a relatively tedious job for 10 hours a day with 28 days holiday whilst John Crimpz bezzes around the world doing all those amazing routes I dream of. Granted, sometimes I think some of them are bellends but I encounter bellends in all walks of life.