[andy_e]

Micro Beta

All about the infinitesimal readjustments and hold precision!

[cha1n]

I've speculated that TUHU is mostly the product of heel use being associated with hard problems and hard climbing. People think "I'm on a hard problem here, I'd best use my heel as that's what you do on hard problems". Has anybody else observed this?

Yes, only punters do it when unnecessary - I remember doing it myself when I first started using heelhooks. The better I've got, the less I use heelhooks to be fair, that's why I can get away with wearing slippers with a shit heel most of the time.

[36chambers]

The ballerina heel.

This is a really interesting comment. Regardless of the difference between the ballerina heel and the punter heel, I really think there is a lot of TUHU (Totally Unecessary Heel Usage) flying around. Like, you'll see someone put their heel on when you're thinking surely a toe would be better (most commonly seen on rock overs onto smears/lips where the foot is far away from you. Obviously if the hold is close by the heel can be advantageous by bringing your weight directly over the hold so you can "sit" on it, but for rockovers off to the side the toe normally provides greater accuracy, dexterity and leverage . See heel use on Blind Date, Beast of the Field etc). I mean, if it work's for you then fine, but for many people the heel is always the "go-to" default.

IMHO I'd argue against this. Furthermore, toe rockovers appear to severely limit how high you can place your foot, whereas a heel allows for a much higher placement before initiating the move. Could you imagine Andy_e rocking to the ear with a toe? His body would have to be much higher. Probably

I've speculated that TUHU is mostly the product of heel use being associated with hard problems and hard climbing. People think "I'm on a hard problem here, I'd best use my heel as that's what you do on hard problems". Has anybody else observed this?

I heel hook whenever possible.

Perhaps TUHU allows the user to explore the vast possibilities of the heel hook. I've observed Ondra in bouldering competitions heel hooking the shit out of everything. One should never underestimate a good heelhook, ask Ned...

[thekettle]

I'd agree tactics is the big change I think that occurs in 'advanced' bouldering. Really judicious application of 'standard' skills, super-accurate hand and foot movements, and doing every move consistently, with the least possible effort. The most common technique issue I see in boulderers plateauing around 7B-C is a lack of engagement and initiation with their core and legs. Not sure whether that counts as advanced though..

[Falling Down]

Yes, very commonly observed in London walls. <snobbery>Usually from people with a brand new pair of Solutions on, falling off a V1</snobbery>

Where you watching me climb yesterday?

[tomtom]

Will - are you an old man reborn in a young(ish) body?

[andy_e]

Something's gone horribly wrong with the world when a video of me climbing ends up in a thread on advanced technique in a positive manner...

[36chambers]

Something's gone horribly wrong with the world when a video of me climbing ends up in a thread on advanced technique in a positive manner...

 

[Fiend]

Back onto Advanced Techniques - I was about to suggest a Ninja Moon Kick as something I'd only seen used on Cypher, but then I remembered having to do one on a 6C+!

I did one on Sing A Rainbow at Carrock, definitely helped the move. Watching Moonie do it was the first time so I'd say this falls into the advanced category, or at least "intermediate to some advanced stuff no-one can specify"

I always think sequences where you move limbs up a bit and then entangle them back down to get everything in the right position seem pretty advanced.

[Footwork]

To me, advanced bouldering technique can be explained in the same way as 'advanced' technique in things like diving, gymnastics and tricks on ski's/ skateboards.

You start off with a basic move or form and add another. You keep adding combinations of basic moves until the motion is no longer seen as basic but complex, or 'advanced'. For the advanced moves, the basic components must be solid.

Advanced implies a beginner can't do it, but it cannot exist without the basic form which is what a beginner will first learn. So advanced bouldering technique would be a move which involves a combination of basics. Like a drop knee, heelhook and thumbsprag in one motion.

Apologies, this probably comes across as complete bollocks

[Fiend]

Nope, not at all, try harder next time 

[Will Hunt]

The ballerina heel.

This is a really interesting comment. Regardless of the difference between the ballerina heel and the punter heel, I really think there is a lot of TUHU (Totally Unecessary Heel Usage) flying around. Like, you'll see someone put their heel on when you're thinking surely a toe would be better (most commonly seen on rock overs onto smears/lips where the foot is far away from you. Obviously if the hold is close by the heel can be advantageous by bringing your weight directly over the hold so you can "sit" on it, but for rockovers off to the side the toe normally provides greater accuracy, dexterity and leverage . See heel use on Blind Date, Beast of the Field etc). I mean, if it work's for you then fine, but for many people the heel is always the "go-to" default.

IMHO I'd argue against this. Furthermore, toe rockovers appear to severely limit how high you can place your foot, whereas a heel allows for a much higher placement before initiating the move. Could you imagine Andy_e rocking to the ear with a toe? His body would have to be much higher. Probably

I've speculated that TUHU is mostly the product of heel use being associated with hard problems and hard climbing. People think "I'm on a hard problem here, I'd best use my heel as that's what you do on hard problems". Has anybody else observed this?

I heel hook whenever possible.

Perhaps TUHU allows the user to explore the vast possibilities of the heel hook. I've observed Ondra in bouldering competitions heel hooking the shit out of everything. One should never underestimate a good heelhook, ask Ned...

Isn't that hold on DWR scalloped in such a way that precludes use of the toe? Obviously toes aren't always the way forward. I probably should have qualified that we should consider problems not on DWR (they do exist...  )
If we're looking in Andy's vids for evidence then I present this:






It absolutely never occurred to me when climbing that to put the heel on.

[cha1n]

That doesn't really look like unnecessary use of the heel to me. Ok, it appears like having the heel in may be better to reach the first crimp but hinder the bump move. It's all probably height/hip flexibility dependent.

I thought you meant when beginners use a heel in a completely illogical situation when flustered/on steep ground.

Someone doing it with a toe for reference:

[tomtom]

So what about using your heel in a non-heel hook way - e.g. around an arete - or on a hold to cam against your instep?

(I'm a member of the heel liberation - aka who gives a fuck - party)

[nai]

learning skin management or how to read a weather forecast and choose the right crag is more advanced than that.

[36chambers]

Keeping my climbing shoes under my armpits between attempts on a cold day was a game changer for me.

[nai]

get yourself some hand warmers and put them inside your boots while they're inside your armpits. Bingly boom, toasty shoes ready to go soon as you slip them on.

[tomtom]

Nesh. Both of yers

[tomtom]

Nesh. Both of yers

[slackline]

I thought you meant when beginners use a heel in a completely illogical situation when flustered/on steep ground.

Is this not just part of the learning curve that everyone goes through when they are a "beginner"?

They'll see people doing something at the wall such as using a heel and give it a try on something that is at their limit.  They don't do it in such a manner that it actually helps them or it just doesn't help (i.e. a "completely illogical situation") but thats just part of learning to climb.

So what about using your heel in a non-heel hook way - e.g. around an arete

If putting your leg round an arete and placing the heel on the other side to your body to hold you in balance isn't a heel-hook then its......? 

Heels are probably more useful on aretes (or tufas) in this manner than getting them up high near your shoulders/hands and trying to rock on to them.

[cha1n]

Is this not just part of the learning curve that everyone goes through when they are a "beginner"?

They'll see people doing something at the wall such as using a heel and give it a try on something that is at their limit.  They don't do it in such a manner that it actually helps them or it just doesn't help (i.e. a "completely illogical situation") but thats just part of learning to climb.

Yeh, I'd agree with that. I guess I just misunderstood what Will meant, I sort of assumed that once you got to a certain level you'd know when is appropriate to use a heel. Certainly before getting to the advanced stage!

I tighten the elastic around the bottom of my jacket and do the walk-in my my shoes anywhere inside so they are nice and warm straight away (mainly to get the rubber supple).

[moose]

I suspect the heel vs toe debate is more a question of height than experience - I often use my heel where a toe might be more usual because it better accommodates my long legs - when, for me, using the toe would be horrilbly bunched-up or require getting very high up on poor holds.

I am disillusioned that the combined wisdom of UKB has brought no revelation of a climbing "Street Fighter II" / "Mortal Kombat" style special move.  Very disappointing.  I was hoping for a "Whadya mean you don't know that if you tense the core and scream "Hadduken" you become briefly weightless?"

[jfdm]

The best technicians don't use heel hooks, just knee bars, surely 
The book Bounce talks about needing to spend 10,000 hours in order to master something.

In climbing you can tell that somebody has mastered things when they make something difficult look easy and doable.
But this naturalness comes from hours of grind.

I remember watching Ian Vickers win uk indoor climbing comp years ago, making it look like a warm up.
Had a go on route after comp and couldn't get off the ground.

If you are after advanced bouldering watch Sharks interview with John Gaskins.
All those subtle body/foot positions (technique) coupled with his power and strength, running on auto.
For me one of the best vimeo bouldering clips.
Thanks john, shark and gvg

[Andy F V2.0]

Something's gone horribly wrong with the world when a video of me climbing ends up in a thread...

Fixed   

[lagerstarfish]

appropriate use of the quote function and the ability to embed media