[jfdm]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/19/charges-paying-card-banned-flights-tax-bills
The pesky EU getting involved in how we run our country yet again. Why can't they keep their big beak out of our business.

Plus

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
A picture paints a thousand words. The pic of Brexit teams at the start of this article seems to sum up how unprepared the EU team and how seriously DD and the lads are taking things. Plan, what's that again.... we had all that blather about Mother Theresa and DD negotiating 24/7, yet DD this week could only fit in an hour.....

[jfdm]

Huston/Brussels we have a problem.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-negotiator-europe-euratom-airline-safety-negotiations-theresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html

It simples init.

[Oldmanmatt]

Oh stop being so negative, how can you be down when this happened:

Trump: UK-US trade deal could be 'big and exciting'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40716317

We're quids in mate! The leader of the free world is gonna be our buddy!


(I do not mean anything I have written in this post).


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[tomtom]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-negotiator-europe-euratom-airline-safety-negotiations-theresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Time to start stockpiling food, water and Toblerones?

If we do cliff edge I suspect there will be some shortages...

[seankenny]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-negotiator-europe-euratom-airline-safety-negotiations-theresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Time to start stockpiling food, water and Toblerones?

If we do cliff edge I suspect there will be some shortages...

Agggh.

"The UK does not have its own capacity to do things like certify maintenance facilities if it leaves the European Aviation Safety Agency. Yes, you heard that right. The UK won’t be able to certify the people that fix the planes. As with so many of these issues, the UK will either have to negotiate to remain in the agency (which is within the dreaded European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction), or establish its own capacity to replace what it does from a standing start in only 20 months."

Can we not find an ad agency to boil all these messages down into pithy slogans, put them on the side of some buses and drive them into Brexitland so the dumb cunt knuckleheads people easily mislead by Brexit fantasy visions that voted for this shit show can get some sense of what is about to hit us.

I for one would happily pay a tenner for this. Maybe more.

[A Jooser]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-negotiator-europe-euratom-airline-safety-negotiations-theresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Agggh.

"The UK does not have its own capacity to do things like certify maintenance facilities if it leaves the European Aviation Safety Agency. Yes, you heard that right. The UK won’t be able to certify the people that fix the planes. As with so many of these issues, the UK will either have to negotiate to remain in the agency (which is within the dreaded European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction), or establish its own capacity to replace what it does from a standing start in only 20 months."

Some further reading on the topic for those interested in a little more detail...

From the UK Civil Aviation Authority's website http://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/About-us/Our-role/:

As the UK's specialist aviation regulator we work so that: the aviation industry meets the highest safety standards...
Our responsibilities... We regulate all UK airlines to ensure they comply with relevant international safety standards including European-wide safety regulations set by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)...
Areas outside of our responsibility... We do not have the legal power to determine the reliability or quality of service provided by airlines... Nor do we certify or approve the design and manufacture of different types of aircraft - this is done at European level by EASA...

From the Airline Basics website of engineer and aviation consultant Michael Swoboda http://airlinebasics.com/brexit-in-aviation-will-the-uk-leave-easa-3-significant-topics-to-consider/, an article written in June 2016 and worth reading in full:

It has to be clearly said that the UK CAA has had a magnificent impact on EASA rulemaking and also, and maybe foremost, on the “best practices” within a CAA, many of which have been adopted by the aviation authorities of other European member states. The British CAA was almost always the first to properly adapt to new regulations and has almost done this with a bang. If you could not find your answer somewhere else – you would go to the Brits. No matter from which country your need would originate...
I firmly believe that the UK will remain a member of EASA despite Brexit. Furthermore, in the unlikely event that the UK chooses to leave EASA, all the companies will still quickly apply for European certification to get the business going and ensure smooth aircraft sales and aircraft transitions...

He concludes with the wisest words on the matter...

But the future is an unknown, so we are bound to see what happens...

It's worth noting that the EASA has only been fully functional since 2008 and has numerous Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreements and Working Arrangements for co-operation and working with non-EU countries and CAAs of non-EU countries.

So why would the views of The Independent's op-ed writer and author of The Great British Moronathon Blog - "Articles and comments on the biggest f**k up in British political history" - differ so much from the considered, nuanced and much more balanced view on the subject expressed by the aviation expert?

From Steve Bullock's Twitter account:

Steve Bullock @GuitarMoog
Immigrant, Musician, Sound Engineer, ex-negotiator for the UK in the EU, liberal, SNP, anti-Brexit, pro-EU campaigner.

Ah!...

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, that will all be ok then.

However, aside from Indy opinion pieces being of s tabloid nature and, in fact, despite differences in the relative tone and style of each of the above articles; they remain opinion.

Of course, there exists the possibility that such regulation will not be the critical issue facing that industry. Ownership of airlines and their rights to fly might be trickier to deal with:

http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/knowledge/publications/144673/airline-regulation-what-you-need-to-know-with-brexit-approaching

Aside from sensational headlines, there has been some apparent movement of this. That Rayan air tosser, for one, though he is possibly just being a cussed twat, as usual.
Or just blunt and unscrupulous. It's hard to argue against his business acumen, after all.


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[petejh]

A Jooser - I'd give up mate they don't want to hear it.
(Although can someone point jfdm in the direction of the R4 interview with the former UK diplomat, iirc might have been Sir Christopher Myer, on the day that 'paperwork' picture emerged)

If Michael O'Leary said good morning I'd double-check my watch.

[jfdm]

A Jooser - I'd give up mate they don't want to hear it.
(Although can someone point jfdm in the direction of the R4 interview with the former UK diplomat, iirc might have been Sir Christopher Myer, on the day that 'paperwork' picture emerged)

If Michael O'Leary said good morning I'd double-check my watch.

Hey, hang on a minute, I thought we weren't supposed to be taking advice from experts. Those good for nothing experts. I'd rather fly by the seat of my pants..... Sir Chris can go and whistle...

[A Jooser]

 
From article linked by Oldmanmatt:

Conclusions
There can be no certainty on the issues discussed above until the terms of the UK’s exit from the EU are negotiated with its remaining members, a process which is expected to be slow and onerous...

Any views on the results of Brexit which include caveats such as this are worth consideration. Some similar ground on Open Skies and airline ownership (expressed with the same degree of uncertainty) was covered by Andrew Haines, Chief Executive of the UK Civil Aviation Authority in his The future of open skies post-Brexit speech in December 2016.
 

Re. my previous post...

...despite differences in the relative tone and style of each of the above articles; they remain opinion.

Indeed. However, I would suggest one is the informed, unbiased opinion of an expert in his field and the other is an agenda driven op-ed. But people can read both and draw their own conclusions on the quality of opinion.

I'd credited the Indy article with being little more than an opinion piece but on re-reading it I have some observations. I was drawn in by the heading of The Independent's article 'As a British EU negotiator, I can tell you that Brexit is going to be far worse than anyone could have guessed'; misled, I thought it might be by someone currently involved in the Brexit negotiations and therefore genuinely insightful. Of course it isn't. The headline should have said 'former British EU negotiator'. But at least it's all made plain at the bottom of the article...

Steve Bullock worked at the UK Representation to the EU from 2010-2014 where he negotiated several EU regulations for the UK in European Council working groups. He has also worked for the European Commission and the Department for International Development’s Europe Department. The UK in a Changing Europe assisted with the commissioning of this piece.

So it was written by a former British EU negotiator who has since worked for the European Commission (does he have an EU pension?) and paid for (commissioned) by a think-tank that publishes material highly critical of Britain leaving the EU - but which must be 'authoritative, non-partisan and impartial' because they tell us so. And of course it was published on a website which is basically the polar opposite of the Daily Express.

None of that invalidates an author's opinion, the points may merit consideration, although I'd hope we can all understand what propaganda is.

A Jooser - I'd give up mate they don't want to hear it.

You couldn't possibly be suggesting that posters on this thread would have no interest in entertaining opinions that don't accord with their own, could you? 

[Oldmanmatt]

So, this fella is no fan of Brexit.
Anyone come across reasonable refutation of his points?

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08/15/the-government-s-customs-union-plan-is-an-absolute-dog-s-bre

[seankenny]

So, this fella is no fan of Brexit.
Anyone come across reasonable refutation of his points?

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08/15/the-government-s-customs-union-plan-is-an-absolute-dog-s-bre

No, but you might enjoy this anyhow:
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/what-position-papers-tell-us-about.html

[jfdm]

Well Brexit going really well this week.
So well in fact that public money has been used to help with hard Brexit propaganda.
https://www.channel4.com/news/conservative-mp-suella-fernandes-warns-theresa-may-not-to-keep-britain-in-single-market
Suella is the embodiment of Brexit, when things are scrutinised, they seem to wilt.
Brexit a rip roaring success.

Just had a look at wiki page about suella, daughter of immigrants, worked hard done well for herself. Why doesn't she want to give the same benefits she has grasped to other families looking to move to the uk in the near future.

[highrepute]

Well Brexit going really well this week.
So well in fact that public money has been used to help with hard Brexit propaganda.
https://www.channel4.com/news/conservative-mp-suella-fernandes-warns-theresa-may-not-to-keep-britain-in-single-market
Suella is the embodiment of Brexit, when things are scrutinised, they seem to wilt.
Brexit a rip roaring success.

Just had a look at wiki page about suella, daughter of immigrants, worked hard done well for herself. Why doesn't she want to give the same benefits she has grasped to other families looking to move to the uk in the near future.

Revealed: The Tory MPs using taxpayers’ cash to fund a secretive hard-Brexit group

This only thickens the plot.

[powderpuff]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/oct/03/anywhere-but-westminster-in-brexit-heartland-of-kent-fruit-is-rotting-for-want-of-pickers-video


I wish everone who voted leave would watch this video with an open mind.......massive optimist warning!

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[highrepute]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/oct/03/anywhere-but-westminster-in-brexit-heartland-of-kent-fruit-is-rotting-for-want-of-pickers-video

I wish everone who voted leave would watch this video with an open mind.......massive optimist warning!

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I really like Jon Harris's videos but he seems adept at going to run down city centres in the middle of the day where inevitably he meets some fairly extreme Brexit voters. But surely most Brexit voters aren't like that, 70% of Tory voters voted Leave but maybe they wouldn't make as good viewing...

[highrepute]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/oct/03/anywhere-but-westminster-in-brexit-heartland-of-kent-fruit-is-rotting-for-want-of-pickers-video

I wish everone who voted leave would watch this video with an open mind.......massive optimist warning!

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I really like Jon Harris's videos but he seems adept at going to run down city centres in the middle of the day where inevitably he meets some fairly extreme Brexit voters. But surely most Brexit voters aren't like that, 70% of Tory voters voted Leave but maybe they wouldn't make as good viewing...

[Oldmanmatt]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/oct/03/anywhere-but-westminster-in-brexit-heartland-of-kent-fruit-is-rotting-for-want-of-pickers-video

I wish everone who voted leave would watch this video with an open mind.......massive optimist warning!

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I really like Jon Harris's videos but he seems adept at going to run down city centres in the middle of the day where inevitably he meets some fairly extreme Brexit voters. But surely most Brexit voters aren't like that, 70% of Tory voters voted Leave but maybe they wouldn't make as good viewing...

Are you suggesting the interviewees are not representative of 70% of the Tory voters?
Sure?

[Johnny Brown]

Intrigued as to whether our resident Brexiteers are happy with recent direction? Would a 'no-deal' outcome be acceptable?

[Oldmanmatt]

Intrigued as to whether our resident Brexiteers are happy with recent direction? Would a 'no-deal' outcome be acceptable?

I suspect this is representative, though I’d be interested in the “horse’s mouth” version:

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/i-dont-like-this-brexit-but-i-will-live.html?m=1

[Johnny Brown]

Saw that piece earlier in the week. It made me quite angry.

[abarro81]

Whoever the guy who wrote that blog is, he's a moronic c*nt

[petejh]

Intrigued as to whether our resident Brexiteers are happy with recent direction? Would a 'no-deal' outcome be acceptable?

Who said there isn't going to be a deal? That might be the fear but it isn't the reality, at least yet. Or is it wishful thinking on the part of the resident remainers on here? A bit of Schadenfreude rearing its head?

The language changed dramatically today from that of the past two weeks, all of a sudden Michel Barnier is talking about 'no deal' being out of the question and of 'not being made aware' of the consequences of 'no deal'. May is talking of the 'possibility' of the payment rising to 60 billion. Juncker is now saying he 'hates' the thought of no deal '. Merkel is talking about 'zero indication of brexit talk will fail'. Tusk - 'the deadlock has been exaggerated'.
It's clear there's a shared purpose behind the scenes.

All just another day in politics-land.

[Johnny Brown]

I'm aware of that, but it's also been talked about a lot and I'm curious as to whether you think no deal would still be better than remaining?

[tregiffian]

Renee is a lovely girl. We should follow her example and just........