[cheque]

I reckon Pete actually voted remain but just loves arguing online. 

[SA Chris]

Oh no he doesn't!

[mrjonathanr]

Interesting -and critical- article in pro Remain Guardian about Brexit bill.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/08/the-guardian-view-on-parliament-and-brexit-mps-fail-their-first-test

Pjh 'sour grapes' - I take it that means you struggle to engage with arguments about the role of referenda, because you certainly haven't addressed the argument yet.

[Oldmanmatt]

Or, apparently the even more pro-remain Independent...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-four-times-worse-uk-economy-eu-departure-mit-economists-john-van-reenen-trade-a7570016.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Funny how the "Lefty" media are so pro-remain, but Labour are all for it.
Hopefully this will end Labour's reign as the second party. I think they lost their way decades ago.
If only the Liberals could workout how to organise a piss-up in the current political brewery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[petejh]

Interesting -and critical- article in pro Remain Guardian about Brexit bill.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/08/the-guardian-view-on-parliament-and-brexit-mps-fail-their-first-test

Pjh 'sour grapes' - I take it that means you struggle to engage with arguments about the role of referenda, because you certainly haven't addressed the argument yet.

I see little to address - you don't think major changes should be left to referendum; I'm content that they are. You haven't changed my mind; I'm not trying to change yours. End of argument.

[A Jooser]

Funny how the "Lefty" media are so pro-remain...

I'm guessing you don't read the Morning Star.

...but Labour are all for it.

An abandonment of New Labour Blairism one hopes and, perhaps, a return to the ideals represented by giants of the Labour movement such as Dennis Skinner, Tony Benn and Michael Foot. But sadly now, I fear, they're all just clueless career politicians who don't know where to turn and have no principles to fall back on.

In retrospect the 1983 Labour manifesto makes interesting reading. The Great Repeal Bill, negotiations with our European partners, a period of transition... all sounds rather familiar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh4yh95N4Jg&feature=youtu.be&t=17

[tomtom]

What Nic(ola) said:

[A Jooser]

...sadly now, I fear, they're all just clueless career politicians who don't know where to turn and have no principles to fall back on.

I apply this as much to Corbyn as I do to single-issue Sturgeon, I assure you. Perhaps I'd have more respect for them if they didn't indulge in childish point-scoring on Twitter. Sad, that's the level of political debate in this day and age. Change the world in 140 characters or less!... or should that be fewer?!...

[Paul B]

Ok tit for tat in a public forum isn't a great thing, but twitter / social media is a legitimate platform and IMO a good way for politicians to engage the younger (more tech savvy) generation.

[Oldmanmatt]

"Britain is no longer a world power".
(Quite the insult, coming from the country currently run by a Psychotic Cheese Puff and the Looney Tune brigade).
May has failed to garner "Maggie" like respect outside of the UK...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/theresa-mays-empire-of-the-mind.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&referer


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[Oldmanmatt]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/19/why-some-tories-fear-blood-on-the-streets?CMP=share_btn_fb

Ah, Sunday morning, Coffee, a couple of Choc-chip cookies, cartoons on the box and a lazy perusal of the latest prognostications of doom.
We'll get the bikes out after swimming lessons and enjoy the temporary lack of rain, y'know, before the world ends etc etc...


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[Offwidth]

Serious looking customs problems.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/20/post-brexit-customs-gridlock-could-choke-uk-trade-experts-warn

[i.munro]

A long period of falling wages followed by spralling food prices - historically the background for every violent revolution that I can think of. Chuck in a democracy that's ceased to function and a lot of public anger ...

[Fultonius]

Luckily the referendum wasn't all about immigration:

Davis said the country would struggle to fill vacancies with Brits alone.

“It will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs,” Davis said, while on a visit to Estonia. “Don’t expect just because we’re changing who makes the decision on the policy, the door will suddenly shut. It won’t.”

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-keeps-door-ajar-to-low-skilled-workers-after-brexit/

Sovereignty innit. 

[Oldmanmatt]

Clearly.
Not about immigration at all.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/02/brexit-ministers-who-just-realised-reducing-immigration-problem-them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[petejh]

Well.. for me it wasn't. 

Who gets to decide policy on immigration (amongst other things) - the UK or Brussels, sure.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well.. for me it wasn't. 

Who gets to decide policy on immigration (amongst other things) - the UK or Brussels, sure.

I know.

But it certainly was for a good many. I can see this going down like a lead balloon with the Daily Fail crowd...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[petejh]

Call me naive, but I don't really believe that people are actually as fuck-headed in real life as the media would have us believe. I imagine a great many of the daily fail crowd, when they stop to consider it in a quiet moment of reflection, do actually understand that some amount of immigration is essential to a healthy economy. But that sort of view doesn't make for good news stories in the Guardian when the imperative is to find some moronic half-thought out strawman instead and bayonet it to death.

[SA Chris]

Your naive. And underestimating the general populace's capabilities when it comes to fuckheadedness.

[petejh]

You are the general populace. So am I. Nobody on here is any wiser, on average, than the average joe or jill.

[Oldmanmatt]

You are the general populace. So am I. Nobody on here is any wiser, on average, than the average joe or jill.

Well, that's a nice idea.

Though, on balance, I don't think I'll be letting the Bin man replace my GP anytime soon...

On another note.
Some strong feeling across the water. Stirring up that hornet's nest seems like a great plan.
Both, from security perspective and a financial one.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-drives-registration-of-100-000-uk-firms-in-ireland-1.2985509


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[petejh]

Binman? I'll see your GP and raise you an electrician, mechanic, fabricator/welder or steel erector. None of which he could do competently.

Also, your GP might be great at diagnosing medical conditions. It doesn't make him any more qualified than the binman to decide who he believes should govern him.

[tomtom]

Binman? I'll see your GP and raise you an electrician, mechanic, fabricator/welder or steel erector. None of which he could do competently.

Also, your GP might be great at diagnosing medical conditions. It doesn't make him any more qualified than the binman to decide who he believes should govern him.

Yes - but in the flavour of democracy we live in different people are more qualified...

Notably politicians - we elect them so they can make decisions on our behalf (by assumption making them more qualified than us..).

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, your choice of words sums up my dislike of democracy, Pete.
You used the word "Believe".
All hail the coming Robot Overlords!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Offwidth]

Call me naive, but I don't really believe that people are actually as fuck-headed in real life as the media would have us believe. I imagine a great many of the daily fail crowd, when they stop to consider it in a quiet moment of reflection, do actually understand that some amount of immigration is essential to a healthy economy. But that sort of view doesn't make for good news stories in the Guardian when the imperative is to find some moronic half-thought out strawman instead and bayonet it to death.

Your naive. Try talking more to some of these ordinary brexit voters. I come from a background that (outside my academic bubble) I know good people who voted brexit but normally it was more as a emotional response than any fully informed logic. It doesn't make them bad, it doesn't make the vote wrong but it sure wasnt informed by economic niceties. The Fail, Scum and Excess are symptoms of this, they shouldn't exist in the modern UK as three of the best selling newspapers. Sure some in the Grauniad are busy skewering strawmen but there is plenty of good fact based argument there too.

This fear of immigration issue is very real and the intents of a significant minority in the UK is they really dont want the current scale:  the farms, hospitals and universities need to get over this and sort out a plan B. Its real because UKIP, The Fail and their ilk spread exaggeration and lies about immigrants for years and failed to highlight how dependant we are on them. Its dishonest, immoral, stupid economically but has sadly been very effective.