[shark]

Germany has benefited massively as an exporter from effectively trading with an artificially depressed currency. If there was no Euro the Deutschmark would be a very highly valued currency and its exporters currency advantage would disappear. It irks me that as it gains economically it also gains political weight to throw around as the de facto leader of Europe.

[Johnny Brown]

I'd love to think all we need to become a big exporter is a little advantage like a weak currency, but I don't see it. Did you even read the link? Unlike Germany, we largely failed to transition our heavy industry to a modern high tech version that could compete globally. Where we did (Airbus) it was often part of a European project, or an international investor wanting to be in the common market. Think another Nissan Sunderland is likely outside Europe? Bearing in mind as we are not a primary producer most of our raw materials and sub-assemblies will have to be imported first, negating a good proportion of the advantage of a weak pound. Relying entirely on value added when with an unskilled workforce we don't have a great deal of value to add.

I think a big part of the difference with Germany is the long hard look at themselves they were forced to take after the war. Whereas we are still slapping ourselves on the back about how great we are, whilst steadily running the country down. Leaving Europe is hubris.

[shark]

Germany is efficient but not entrepreneurial as far as winning sales and capturing new and changing markets goes. This is the view provided by a former Sales Director of Sheffield Forgemasters. And guess what? He is a German so is uniquely qualified to have that opinion. They have advantages but so do we. Bring it on

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Germany is efficient but not entrepreneurial as far as winning sales and capturing new and changing markets goes. This is the view provided by a former Sales Director of Sheffield Forgemasters. And guess what? He is a German so is uniquely qualified to have that opinion. They have advantages but so do we. Bring it on

 

On the other hand, MTU and ThyssenKrupp, both of whom I've done development work with (MTU on the Reem high speed 16v's and Thyssen on Fire rated bulkheads) are extremely forward looking and omnipresent in global Engineering.

I'd hardly call their auto industry parochial or lacking in gusto, either.

I think we have a tendency to think of Germans as ridged and staid, but they have always been inventive and entrepreneurial, just in a more thorough and cautious manner than us Brits.

We're more prone to gambling big.



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[andy popp]

Germany is efficient but not entrepreneurial as far as winning sales and capturing new and changing markets goes. This is the view provided by a former Sales Director of Sheffield Forgemasters. And guess what? He is a German so is uniquely qualified to have that opinion. They have advantages but so do we. Bring it on

 

On the other hand, MTU and ThyssenKrupp, both of whom I've done development work with (MTU on the Reem high speed 16v's and Thyssen on Fire rated bulkheads) are extremely forward looking and omnipresent in global Engineering.

I'd hardly call their auto industry parochial or lacking in gusto, either.

I think we have a tendency to think of Germans as ridged and staid, but they have always been inventive and entrepreneurial, just in a more thorough and cautious manner than us Brits.

We're more prone to gambling big.



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+1. The success of German 'Mittlestand' manufacturing is built world, not domestic, markets.

[petejh]

I'd love to think all we need to become a big exporter is a little advantage like a weak currency, but I don't see it. Did you even read the link? Unlike Germany, we largely failed to transition our heavy industry to a modern high tech version that could compete globally.

This. ↓

Germany has benefited massively as an exporter from effectively trading with an artificially depressed currency. If there was no Euro the Deutschmark would be a very highly valued currency and its exporters currency advantage would disappear. It irks me that as it gains economically it also gains political weight to throw around as the de facto leader of Europe.

Unlike Germany, we largely failed to transition our heavy industry to a modern high tech version that could compete globally. Where we did (Airbus) it was often part of a European project, or an international investor wanting to be in the common market. Think another Nissan Sunderland is likely outside Europe? Bearing in mind as we are not a primary producer most of our raw materials and sub-assemblies will have to be imported first, negating a good proportion of the advantage of a weak pound

That depends on what kind of deal with the EU we end up with. I don't imagine the world's car-makers will completely turn their back on the UK no. We used to have a steel industry but it was killed by cheaper imports, a result in part of sterling's strength. Same with other heavy industries. Slate (killed by Spanish and Argentinian imports) springs to mind.
ARM Holdings anyone? One of the most successful UK tech companies you've never heard of, whose products are in the majority of the world's phones and computers.

One change coming down the road will be fracking in the NW within the next 5 years. We all know what that did to the US economy and energy prices. I'm not saying I think we should, but we will - the groundwork is being prepped for storage on sites I visit.

Relying entirely on value added when with an unskilled workforce we don't have a great deal of value to add.

I don't understand how you can write-off the UK workforce as unskilled. It simply isn't. And even it were, are you immune to the idea that events create change? We're not a third-world country we're the 5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd largest in europe - if it becomes apparent that the changed circumstances resulting from leaving the EU have created a high demand for a certain skill-set then we have the resources and institutions to upskill.

I think a big part of the difference with Germany is the long hard look at themselves they were forced to take after the war. Whereas we are still slapping ourselves on the back about how great we are, whilst steadily running the country down.

Which is exactly what this event (brexit) presents the country with - a hard look at ourselves (even if the more insular inward-looking brexiteers don't realise this). The country is going to have to adapt its economy and grasp opportunities or die.

[Nutty]

We're not a third-world country we're the 5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd largest in europe.

6th and 3rd post referendum.

[Johnny Brown]

We used to have a steel industry but it was killed by cheaper imports, a result in part of sterling's strength. Same with other heavy industries. Slate (killed by Spanish and Argentinian imports) springs to mind.

In part due to sterling's strength, I'd say a very small part, but mainly due to the fact that:

We're not a third-world country

We can't compete on primary production because are one of the most developed countries in the world. That isn't going to change even if we slash those pesky european workers rights.

I don't understand how you can write-off the UK workforce as unskilled. It simply isn't.

Compared to Germany, as regards to manufacturing. Too much theoretical education and not enough practical.

The country is going to have to adapt its economy and grasp opportunities or die.

Hmm, I doubt it. As you say we are the :

5th largest economy in the world and the 2nd largest in europe

Despite this likely to change to 6th and 3rd due to Brexit - its already wobbling - I don't think the economy is fucked or in need of drastic change to avoid death. Its just needs some longer term thinking. What I still fail to see, and I don't get from your points, is how leaving the EU will benefit us. Shark's point seems to suggest the opposite; perhaps we should join the Euro and exploit the market like the Germans.

[Fultonius]

A glimmer of hope...

Hammond appears to be keen to relax austerity and is quite pro-renewable energy/carbon reduction, in free market unregulated kind of way. How this pans out time will tell, but it's not the worst news I've heard all week...

[seankenny]

A glimmer of hope...

Amidst the dark...

Wall Street Journal:
"Corporate spending plans in the UK have “deteriorated out of all recognition” following the country’s vote to leave the European Union, data from Credit Suisse released on Wednesday shows."

https://city.wsj.com/stories/42fb06e0-4e0d-4b05-acb5-4f01696a4d56.html

Whoops!

[galpinos]

We used to have a steel industry but it was killed by cheaper imports, a result in part of sterling's strength.

On the subject of Steel, our current government consistently voted against the legislation increasing the tariffs imposed on imported Chinese steel that the EU was attempting to pass.

[Fultonius]

A glimmer of hope...

Amidst the dark...

Wall Street Journal:
"Corporate spending plans in the UK have “deteriorated out of all recognition” following the country’s vote to leave the European Union, data from Credit Suisse released on Wednesday shows."

https://city.wsj.com/stories/42fb06e0-4e0d-4b05-acb5-4f01696a4d56.html

Whoops!

Oh dear... I jumped the gun I think!

Department of Business,
Innovation and Skills, Department for Energy and Climate Change and Department for Transport are set to be closed.

[benno]

We used to have a steel industry but it was killed by cheaper imports, a result in part of sterling's strength.

On the subject of Steel, our current government consistently voted against the legislation increasing the tariffs imposed on imported Chinese steel that the EU was attempting to pass.

Indeed. Given that the main reason we were opposing those measures in the EU was to avoid annoying China, I reckon we're in a much weaker position now than we were to do anything about the dumping of cheap steel into our market. If we couldn't afford to stand up to China as part of the EU block, we certainly won't manage it on our own.

[galpinos]

Oh dear... I jumped the gun I think!

Department of Business,
Innovation and Skills, Department for Energy and Climate Change and Department for Transport are set to be closed.

Was just about to post than. To be replaced by another department apparently so lets just hope.......

[a dense loner]

What, you mean they're not getting rid of them at all they're just changing the name? Fancy that.

[Will Hunt]

Germany is efficient but not entrepreneurial as far as winning sales and capturing new and changing markets goes. This is the view provided by a former Sales Director of Sheffield Forgemasters. And guess what? He is a German so is uniquely qualified to have that opinion. They have advantages but so do we. Bring it on

 

...I think we have a tendency to think of Germans as ridged and staid, but they have always been inventive and entrepreneurial, just in a more thorough and cautious manner than us Brits.

Bah! Get lost with your "facts". We all know that the German people are goose-stepping efficienoids incapable of innovation, while us plucky Brits are buccaneering venturephiles.

All of our country's problems can be solved with a rousing round of Rule Brittania, and anyone who says otherwise is Doing Britain Down^TM.

[seankenny]

Handy cut out and keep Brexit guide:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Lots on trade, tariffs, and why we're screwed which has absolutely nothing to do with the value of a UKBer's much-vaunted investment portfolio.

[Oldmanmatt]

Handy cut out and keep Brexit guide:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Lots on trade, tariffs, and why we're screwed which has absolutely nothing to do with the value of a UKBer's much-vaunted investment portfolio.

Damn, Pete and Dense had cheered me up no end and I was almost sold on the idea;until you went and posted that (which reiterates everything most people here have said or quoted).




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[seankenny]

Handy cut out and keep Brexit guide:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Lots on trade, tariffs, and why we're screwed which has absolutely nothing to do with the value of a UKBer's much-vaunted investment portfolio.

Damn, Pete and Dense had cheered me up no end and I was almost sold on the idea;until you went and posted that (which reiterates everything most people here have said or quoted).




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[a dense loner]

Nothing we say on here matters. That's the most amusing thing.

[Oldmanmatt]

Nothing we say on here matters. That's the most amusing thing.

Bugger. Updated the signature on my iPad but forgot to do it on my phone.
Please refer below.



All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. Looking at you, here, Dense. 

[Johnny Brown]

What do you mean 'on here' Dense? Nothing matters. Nothing.

[slackline]

Bugger. Updated the signature on my iPad but forgot to do it on my phone.

Since thats also your forum signature you could just ditch the Tapatalk signatures altogether.

[petejh]

Handy cut out and keep Brexit guide:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Lots on trade, tariffs, and why we're screwed which has absolutely nothing to do with the value of a UKBer's much-vaunted investment portfolio.

Funnily I was just reading Investment Week's various 'experts^TM' views on the financial passport systems -far more informative on likely outcomes than this piece.

This is laughable and sums up the article:

So what happens if we don't make any of these deals? After the two year countdown we just fall out the EU with no trade deals in place?
'It's so much worse than that'.

and

We're like a man being thrown out of a plane into the sea with no lifejacket. Seriously. I'm not making this up. It's scary.

  Quality journalism! Be afraid folks, like.. really afraid!
What a load of fucking garbage.

Try this for opinion from the financial world. It won't convince you of anything of course, it's just opinion. But at least the site contains a spectrum of views from positive to negative from people close to the stuff you're talking about, not political commentators.

[seankenny]

Handy cut out and keep Brexit guide:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Lots on trade, tariffs, and why we're screwed which has absolutely nothing to do with the value of a UKBer's much-vaunted investment portfolio.

Funnily I was just reading Investment Week's various 'experts^TM' views on the financial passport systems -far more informative on likely outcomes than this piece.

This is laughable and sums up the article:

So what happens if we don't make any of these deals? After the two year countdown we just fall out the EU with no trade deals in place?
'It's so much worse than that'.

and

We're like a man being thrown out of a plane into the sea with no lifejacket. Seriously. I'm not making this up. It's scary.

  Quality journalism! Be afraid folks, like.. really afraid!
What a load of fucking garbage.

Try this for opinion from the financial world. It won't convince you of anything of course, it's just opinion. But at least the site contains a spectrum of views from positive to negative from people close to the stuff you're talking about, not political commentators.

Well, I could talk style (an article in which the writer quotes Bob Dylan to show that things change) but that's a dead-end, we all have different tastes and the florid suits some. I think the point of the article is how individual investors can benefit from Brexit. That's not quite the same thing as saying Brexit is good for the economy, is it? Rather like Milo Minderbinder arguing for war...