[Oldmanmatt]

Things get worse by the day:

Matt things get worse for you every day. What's your problem exactly in that article you linked? That two politicians are shit-talking their colleagues?

I don't want to be a doom sayer, but.....

 


This thread is like chinese whispers by internet link.

Because it is Pete.

Did you not read the Bank of England statement today? Do you not get the implication of it?

There was no plan Pete.
Everyone, including the Leave leaders, knew it was a bad idea; this is why they have all disappeared.
It is a bad idea, it will cost us dearly. There is no miracle trade deal with the Chinese/US/ A.N.Other  Super nation. This is because we have nothing significant to offer. Even the Chinese comment (whilst laughing) was "I hope they have 500 negotiators and ten years to spare for a trade deal with us" (or something very similar).

Every single expert, every single world leader (Except Putin and some other oddballs), every central bank, and on and on said "it's a bad idea".

Everyone except Farage, Gove and Boris and the loony right/left.

So, yeah, I think I'll listen to the people who are supposed to know. If it were just politicians or businessmen or bankers, I'd have pause; but even the Academics and the Lawyers are in agreement.

You, just have rose tinted specs and a misplaced faith in some golden era, pre globalisation. It ain't coming back. Being small means being trodden under. There's no room for another Swiss, the best we can hope for is a Norway and it's pretty hard to see how that would work for a population our size (already mentioned and that just regurgitating "expert" opinion, not something I've made up).

Neither you, nor Dense have been able to point to anything that stands up to close examination. Although you both complain when people point out why it's not a good argument. Even though many people posting here have a good deal of specialised knowledge and I don't mean me. Seriously, you guys want to argue stats with Slackers?

And, while Rome burns, our political masters are self destructing.

Wonderful.

I'd like a pint of whatever you are drinking. Make it two.
No, I'm not all depressed or mopping around, but it's fucking hard to see an up side to this débâcle.
 


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[petejh]

You, just have rose tinted specs and a misplaced faith in some golden era, pre globalisation. It ain't coming back.

No I don't. Where did you read that? You're mixing me up with those that possibly do - easy to confuse all those idiots though isn't it, so fair enough. I've already explained my view and it didn't include any harking back to any past era.

I'm very open-minded and I'll gladly listen to opinions that differ from my own. But this thread's becoming insufferable. It's disaster masturbation/self-flagellation. Sort of a daily mail if it were written by the whatever's the opposite archetype. Bye.

[a dense loner]

Was the Bank of England statement different than it was last Tuesday when he said all possible scenarios had been planned for? Is he lying now?
Why do you keep reverting back to this golden era? No one who's voted leave on here have mentioned it. I haven't pointed to anything at all. I don't have a plan. I don't need one, that's why others are elected, to make these plans. What are they gonna say tomos interest rates are at 20%, no food is to come into the uk you can only eat what you can kill, houses will devalue 50%, your first born will have to be sacrificed? No none of these things will be said. Men and women much more intelligent than me will sit round a table or many tables and decide over a period of time what they think is the best course of action for Britain as a nation to go forward when we have left the eu.

Who are the people on here that have specialised knowledge about the workings of the eu? I can't think of anyone, just people with different opinions to me.

Don't forget the biggest democratic referendum of all time was won by racist idiots with no plan, what does that say about your fair democracy? Not fair now is it?

[Stu Littlefair]

What are they gonna say tomos interest rates are at 20%, no food is to come into the uk you can only eat what you can kill, houses will devalue 50%, your first born will have to be sacrificed?

Blimey. If that's the criteria that have to be met before you worry about the economic impact, no wonder you were happy to vote to leave.



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[a dense loner]

That's the whole point nobody knows what the economic impact will be. Obviously apart from everyone who voted remain that is.

[Moo]

I haven't read any of this thread. What did we decide, and can we offer our poll as an alternative to the nationwide result in parliament?

[Oldmanmatt]

Was it 90 or 91 when interest rates hit 15% or so?
I remember I was paying a mortgage at the time and having to skimp on food to cover it. Both my neighbours had their houses repossessed.
It can happen.
To be honest, as I said, I'm not moping (I'm mildly amused, it just doesn't translate well in posts).
I'm also not a huge fan of democracy (said that somewhere else on this thread).
I'm not nearly as left wing as I appear sometimes.

I think this is just one amazing clusterfuck. I love the way the leave campaign leaders, lead  the way to their own ignominious career ends. I love the fact that no one has a clue what to do and the fact that the only people that want the pm's job are a bunch of power hungry shits, who wouldn't have a chance in any other circumstance. I figure they are thinking far more about the consultancies and speaking tours after their term than doing anything worthwhile in office.

Hopefully, something good will come out of it all. Even if it's just the demise of this stupid hubris, that lead to the anti-expert, "I know better" crap that got us here.

Dense, a lot of people who are supposed to have studied this, are pretty sure nothing good is going to come of it. That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of experts. "They" seem pretty confident of what it will mean.

So, no, I'm not a huge fan of democracy. I'd rather see a technocracy and leave it to those who think about it a little more than those who ran the leave campaign and then ran away.

I mentioned my real position to Shark and Gaz on facebook, a couple of weeks ago. Secretly looking forward to the chaos.
There is the chance that some beautiful Phoenix will rise from these ashes, after all.


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[Falling Down]

They tipped around 18% in the late eighties.   I remember my Dad looking very pale and stressed at the time and will always remember those days.   Not that I have a mortgage at the moment but if I do have one again I'll certainly bear this in mind.

[Oldmanmatt]

I don't have a mortgage either and luckily don't pay rent. I earn a little from the climbing wall and some as a personal trainer.
So not too bad a position financially, should the shit hit the fan.

The racism side worries me far more, on a personal level, for obvious reasons. But I'm fairly confident that Freedom of Movement will be preserved in any future deal.

I think the "nothing to see here", "whoop whoop we won!" thing by the Leavers (more on Facebook etc than here) is amusing (just look at the exchange rates today).
If you ask "Won what? What have we actually achieved here?" No one has a clue. The only people with any confidence in their predictions are extremely negative and supposedly rather knowledgeable, hardly a heartening moral boost.

I'm certainly not keen on proving myself right, although I will either have the pleasure of being wrong and living in the new Eden or having the minor consolation of knowing I listened to people who were right (again, what I've said or linked to here are the views of others, that make sense to me).






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[lagerstarfish]

I think the "what do you think you voted for?" question is very interesting

[jfdm]

I voted leave for reasons to do with self-governance and a more global outlook, in the optimistic belief that in the long term being outside the EU will prove to be good fr the UK; rather than for reasons to do with xenophobia and cutting ourselves off.

Those exiters - self-governance and more global outlook.
Anybody would think that we are living in 1066 or the Vikings era.o
Self-governance, what has the EU actually prevented the uk gov/ or you from doing.
Global outlook, I thought we were livin in the tinternet era of interconnectedness.
Things couldn't be more global.
As for Dense, I just voted to leave and let others sort things out, sums things up.
I was expecting a bit more substance and backbone.
Yes Pete/Dense things might get better but I am pretty sure one way or another they are going to get a lot worse first.
Starting with the exiters plan "a" where is it.

[a dense loner]

Yes it is going to get worse first, of course it is. How could it not? To change things for what you think will be better something from before has to give. Expected more backbone from me? I don't really know what to say, I don't make any decision on policies neither do you or anyone else here dispite what we may think. Everything wrote on here is either just posturing, hearsay, a.n.other experts opinion, or people's best intentions with what they'd do, nothing more. Plus what you wrote isn't quite what I said jfdm, we can all take bits of sentences and apply them out of context, some people on here are rather gifted at it.

[jfdm]

I don't have a plan. I don't need one, that's why others are elected, to make these plans.

Sorry I didn't quote you Dense.
You voted to leave but don't need a plan, right erm....
Most of the leaders of the leave brigade have abandoned ship.
I wonder why, maybe they are thinking along similar lines...

[a dense loner]

But none of the remain are staying put? We can do this all night I'm sure

[SA Chris]

Only one leave campaigner hasn't stayed put?

[a dense loner]

A point I should have picked up on Chris but I've been too busy on the referendum sites telling everybody how to train on a board, my bad

[SA Chris]

You carry on mate, I'm sure they are loving your deadhanging antics.

[Fultonius]

While driving down to Blyth on Monday I was listening to a phone in on the radio - radio Scotland I believe! There was a far mix of leave and remain voters who called in. The presenter, clearly getting a bit fed up of empty rhetoric, asked the leavers the same question posed above -  "what have we gained" or to some,  "what was the EU stopping us doing"  not one had a clear answer... Just "um... Erm.... vacuum cleaner regulations "  it was painfully embarrassing. The worst was an elderly lady "doing it to protect her grand children"  from what ffs!   Head to dashboard...  No idea.

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[TheTwig]

While driving down to Blyth on Monday I was listening to a phone in on the radio - radio Scotland I believe! There was a far mix of leave and remain voters who called in. The presenter, clearly getting a bit fed up of empty rhetoric, asked the leavers the same question posed above -  "what have we gained" or to some,  "what was the EU stopping us doing"  not one had a clear answer... Just "um... Erm.... vacuum cleaner regulations "  it was painfully embarrassing. The worst was an elderly lady "doing it to protect her grand children"  from what ffs!   Head to dashboard...  No idea.

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I had this exact same thing happen to me. I must admit it is probably THE most infuriating thing for me, and I'm super guilty of getting emotional about this and slagging virtually everyone off who voted leave. All this talk of unity/whatever upsets me nearly as much as the fact. I feel like I've had my country taken hostage and my future damaged, how the hell am I not supposed to take it personally?

I felt really bad because I gave my half-brother an earful for voting leave. He is highly autistic and voted leave because he read on a blog somewhere that the EU is the secret project of the new world order, controlled by the Catholic Church / Jesuits. I mean wtf 

Most of the so called 'reasons' that more mentally able people have come up with are nearly as bad. I still haven't been pointed to a webpage with a list of the rules (with context) that cause us so much damage and misery 

In other news, the Labour party madness seems to be reaching its peak. I'm now a fully paid up member + member of momentum. Woop woop, someone give me shit, go on! 

[tregiffian]

At the risk of repeating myself, there is a school of thought believing that the EU is doomed to failure through internal conflict. Witness the rise of the Right in e.g. Austria, France and Italy and the clear nonsense of a `one size fits all` monetary policy across the Eurozone. We do well to be out of it before things get very messy.

[SA Chris]

At the risk of repeating myself, there are several schools (and a couple of universities) of thought that it won't fail.

[dave]

At the risk of repeating myself, there is a school of thought believing that the EU is doomed to failure through internal conflict. Witness the rise of the Right in e.g. Austria, France and Italy and the clear nonsense of a `one size fits all` monetary policy across the Eurozone. We do well to be out of it before things get very messy.

A conveniently self-fulfilling prophecy!

[jfdm]

But none of the remain are staying put? We can do this all night I'm sure

I am sure we could, but you guys won, shouldn't the "exit leaders" you know be actually taking some leadership.
If remain had won, Cambo would still be there, actually leading, business as usual.
The only person on the "remain" staying put seems to be Jezzer.
(Well for the the time being)...

[tregiffian]

Andrea Leadsom is willing and able to lead given the chance.

[a dense loner]

Buzzwords of the last few weeks "self fulfilling prophecy" i tell you what, fuck off.

I also don't agree with the schools & universities of thought that the eu won't fail Chris. I think it will fail very badly and quite soon.