[monkoffunk]

Am i REALLY the only one that thinks the whole 'corbyn is unelectable' thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy? Even before he was elected it was repeated ad-nauseam. It's actually remarkable he has done as well as he has, considering that in the 10 years or so I've been interested in politics (since I was 17 then) I've never seen a single person as villified by the media and 'establishment' as him. Has it occured to anyone that without the never-ending sniping from the right-wing of the Labour party that he would be more 'electable' ?

As for the idea that someone will replace him, I just don't think it is possible. Corbyn and his lot have legal advice saying that the incumbent does not have to be nominated by MP's to be on the ballot. Essentially, MP's can challenge all they like but he will just be re-elected by the rank-and-file, with probably an even larger mandate by the people who are becoming increasingly sick of these political games. I've never even heard of half of these rebelling shadow cabinet MP's. They are nobodies who will quickly find themselves being de-selected when Momentum decides enough is enough and sharpens the knives. I for one can't wait for a bloodbath, it's been long overdue.

If you are right that will be music to the Tories ears. Better get ready for a generation of Tory rule.

[abarro81]

With reference to the Corbyn/Labour implosion - as soon as I saw he'd called for article 50 to be invoked immediately I thought that
1. people would be after his head
2. I would be one of those people if I were involved in Labour
It would be an absurd move, totally rash, and his calling for it smacked of the bullshit game playing that he claimed to not be about as well as just plain being a shit idea. If he's unelectable it's because people like me, who would happily swing around their votes between Labour, Lib Dem, Green or whoever on that rough side of the divide took my fancy, wouldn't be likely to vote for him except for out of fear of letting the Tories do even better.

[finbarrr]

Am i REALLY the only one that thinks the whole 'corbyn is unelectable' thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy? Even before he was elected it was repeated ad-nauseam. It's actually remarkable he has done as well as he has, considering that in the 10 years or so I've been interested in politics (since I was 17 then) I've never seen a single person as villified by the media and 'establishment' as him. Has it occured to anyone that without the never-ending sniping from the right-wing of the Labour party that he would be more 'electable' ?

i agree.
the media and his own party declared him "unelectable" because he is not part of the political and social elite. someone who does not believe in war or trickle down economics. someone who might actually try to change something.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-still-prepared-to-call-for-war-crimes-investigation-into-tony-blair-a7042926.html

[tomtom]

Am i REALLY the only one that thinks the whole 'corbyn is unelectable' thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy? Even before he was elected it was repeated ad-nauseam. It's actually remarkable he has done as well as he has, considering that in the 10 years or so I've been interested in politics (since I was 17 then) I've never seen a single person as villified by the media and 'establishment' as him. Has it occured to anyone that without the never-ending sniping from the right-wing of the Labour party that he would be more 'electable' ?

the media and his own party declared him "unelectable" because he is not part of the political and social elite. someone who does not believe in war or trickle down economics. someone who might actually try to change something.

But by not behaving as per a 'regular' party leader - he is not able to communicate, or manipulate the media in the ways the other leaders and/or parties can. He dislikes journalists, eschews the Sunday morning politics programs, doesnt give a 5 min soundbite for 'Today' (that then feeds into the rest of the BBC news) etc.. Now, if he was a super social media prescence person - who could disseminate his voice via viral videos that permeate good sense through twitter and facebook then great. But that doesnt happen. He's not got the charisma, chutspa, whatever you call it to make that kind of thing work. Bernie Saunders has... in the context of the US, his stance, his views are more left than Corbyns are in the UK - but he's made it work (or nearly work! - either way its certainly been effective). Sorry - but alot of leadership does come down to charisma - to personality.

Here's an oddball example - but look at Mike Ashleys performance at the parliamentary select committee.... He is a modern Fagin, Satan to his workforce, the devil encarnate. But if you watched his performance - blimey - a masterclass in how to both mea culpa, but be aggressive at the same time. By the end of the 2 hours, he had those MP's eating out of his hand (relatively..). I watched alot of that performance - and seeing it, you at first think, why is that fat nasty man so successful - then after two hours its clear, he can read a situation, work out whats going on and deliver the killer strategy to get out of that situation.

Lets turn it around a bit for Corbyn supporters. Lets wind the clock back to the Lab leadership election - Lets pretend that Chuka, or Andy Burnham had the SAME views and same background/party past as Corbyn. Would you have voted Corbyn?

JC cites he has an overwhelming mandate from Labour party members. Sadly, the only mandate that counts if you want to change this country is one from voters.

[Oldmanmatt]

With reference to the Corbyn/Labour implosion - as soon as I saw he'd called for article 50 to be invoked immediately I thought that
1. people would be after his head
2. I would be one of those people if I were involved in Labour
It would be an absurd move, totally rash, and his calling for it smacked of the bullshit game playing that he claimed to not be about as well as just plain being a shit idea. If he's unelectable it's because people like me, who would happily swing around their votes between Labour, Lib Dem, Green or whoever on that rough side of the divide took my fancy, wouldn't be likely to vote for him except for out of fear of letting the Tories do even better.

+1
I wrote that, without even using my fingers!


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[BrutusTheBear]

The media as an extension of the establishment controls and manipulates politicians not the other way around.

The view that Corbyn is unelectable has been perpetuated from the off.  It's classic advertising technique, repeat something enough and the majority will believe it.  Clearly it is working.

If you can read between the lines it is there to see, the terms of debate and discussion are set by the establishment.

Eg. ITV news yesterday referred to the Labour Party 'tearing itself apart', the Consertives however aren't doing the same they are having 'a leadership contest'.

It's all so obvious and saddening, if the only way to get elected is to offer no alternative. 

I think it is possible but the juggernaut that is the establishment will take some stopping.

Chilcot could be interesting?   

[tomtom]

The media as an extension of the establishment controls and manipulates politicians not the other way around.

The view that Corbyn is unelectable has been perpetuated from the off.  It's classic advertising technique, repeat something enough and the majority will believe it.  Clearly it is working.

If you can read between the lines it is there to see, the terms of debate and discussion are set by the establishment.

Eg. ITV news yesterday referred to the Labour Party 'tearing itself apart', the Consertives however aren't doing the same they are having 'a leadership contest'.

It's all so obvious and saddening, if the only way to get elected is to offer no alternative. 

Labour is presently tearing itself apart - you don't need spin for that its bloody obvious with 12 resignations from his front bench yesterday and 5 more this morning (more junior roles allbeit).

Sorry Corbyn fans - I really don't get it, its like watching a socialist version of the emperors new clothes!

[edit] its been pointed out to me that this post reflects media/politics becoming a self fulfilling prophesy.. which is probably more the point of your post BtB - apologies for the above rant... heady times...

[Oldmanmatt]

The media as an extension of the establishment controls and manipulates politicians not the other way around.

The view that Corbyn is unelectable has been perpetuated from the off.  It's classic advertising technique, repeat something enough and the majority will believe it.  Clearly it is working.

If you can read between the lines it is there to see, the terms of debate and discussion are set by the establishment.

Eg. ITV news yesterday referred to the Labour Party 'tearing itself apart', the Consertives however aren't doing the same they are having 'a leadership contest'.

It's all so obvious and saddening, if the only way to get elected is to offer no alternative. 

I think it is possible but the juggernaut that is the establishment will take some stopping.

Chilcot could be interesting?   

This was true. I think recent events have shown that social media is a little harder to manipulate.
I have not once watched TV news directly. Like many others I get a stream of different articles and clips through social media.
Because I'm not having to pay for a paper, or forced to choose which channel I watch (news broadcasts tending to overlap), I can bring in a diverse range of different opinions. For me that means everything from the Telegraph, to the Huff Post or the Canary. Even then, it's further broadened by the shares of my friends and network, which is an international mix.

I was surprised that the same was true for the young guys that work for me. They are really clued up and active.
And all, each one, angry about what has happened. I mean it, really upset.


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[BrutusTheBear]

Labour is tearing itself apart in that the divide between 'red Tories' and genuine Labour MPs is finally exposed.  Of course the media will lap this up.

Does no one else get the paradox though? 

Sure we need strong opposition but if the opposition is nothing but the same wolf in different clothing it's not opposition is it..  Ergo true and functional democracy doesn't exist.

You are not the only one Twig but apparently we are in a minority.

[tomtom]

Seems like slot of those now leaving the Corbyn camp are very much to the left of the party...

What's with the 'red tory' thing? Should we call those to the left Blue Commies? Or Stalin-lite?

[Duma]

Ftse 250 down another 2.5% in first hour of trading

[BrutusTheBear]

Red Tory - a way of describing the wolf in sheep's clothing. A red Tory being a Labour MP or member of the party who clearly doesn't represent the traditions, values and beliefs commonly associated with the Labour Party.  Blairites, I refer you to previous post quoting Thatcher, essentially  the Labour Party is full of right wingers hence the party is now 'tearing itself apart'.

[Bonjoy]

The media as an extension of the establishment controls and manipulates politicians not the other way around.

The view that Corbyn is unelectable has been perpetuated from the off.  It's classic advertising technique, repeat something enough and the majority will believe it.  Clearly it is working.

Though I agree entirely that the media has done it’s best to silence and destroy Corbyn, I don’t see that it follows that he is therefore a good communicator. It seems to me that many in Labour are just as guilty of repeating a flawed mantra until they believe it.
Listen to his post referendum response if you think he is a great orator who’s words are just not reaching our TVs and radios. Here was a time when his words were guaranteed to reach a wide audience, here was a pivotal moment in history – all he could muster was peevishly delivered dry and dreary waffle.
The fact of the matter is that, as this referendum has shown, Jeremy Corbyn is not listened to, or respected by working class voters. They see him as weak and foolish. For this reason his politics are irrelevant.
It may well be that it’s the Blairites that are out to topple him – again them being a bunch of tepid managerial warmongers does not mean JC is therefore a great and suitable leader.
The rise of JC has proved that there is an appetite for a real opposition and a political position which is actually left of centre. The policies espoused by JC by and large would benefit the working class, it should not be beyond the whit of the Labour party to find a candidate who can communicate these effectively.
Perhaps so many years of Blairism has hollowed out the party to the extent that there is nobody left with sufficient substance to rise to this. It looks that way from the outside. Whatever’s the case, the Labour party needs to get real about JC and find a non Blairite with a bit of charisma, who can speak to his/her party and to ordinary people. The whole Corbyn v Blairite clone thing is a false dichotomy.

[Jaspersharpe]

[BrutusTheBear]

Yes Bonjoy!  Agree entirely but who is that person?

[Bonjoy]

Search me  .
Perhaps they need to cast the net as wide as possible. Maybe they should just admit they don't have any leaders near the top and then interview a whole load of unknowns. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Nothing they do can make them look more shambolic then they already do.

[tomtom]

Red Tory - a way of describing the wolf in sheep's clothing. A red Tory being a Labour MP or member of the party who clearly doesn't represent the traditions, values and beliefs commonly associated with the Labour Party.  Blairites, I refer you to previous post quoting Thatcher, essentially  the Labour Party is full of right wingers hence the party is now 'tearing itself apart'.

Sorry BtB - but hearing that description from you is really, really depressing.

Its divisive and very much - not inclusive.

With views like this do you not think YOU are tearing the party apart? Where are your socialist values of inclusivity and fairness? Of treating people equally?

Whatever’s the case, the Labour party needs to get real about JC and find a non Blairite with a bit of charisma, who can speak to his party and to ordinary people. The whole Corbyn v Blairite clone thing is a false dichotomy.

^^ this.

[Jaspersharpe]

Agree with Bonjoy.

More on Article 50 from DAG. Apologies for FB link but that's the only place it is at the moment.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1200279093330132&id=137432829614769

Puts to bed the "but the EU will make us trigger it" rubbish and more.

[Johnny Brown]

I think this could finish Labour off if they don't get their act together quicksmart. The timing shows, like the tories, they've lost all grasp on the national reality and exist only in a westminster bubble.

Real shame about all the turncoat LibDem voters, if we still had a coalition they could have really capitalised on this like Sturgeon is doing. As we are, it's still a great opening for a progressive liberal party/ alliance.

[Oldmanmatt]

Yes Bonjoy!  Agree entirely but who is that person?

Dense!


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[tomtom]

Yes Bonjoy!  Agree entirely but who is that person?

Dense!

Fraid not, Dense has just signed up as an EU trade deal negotiator..

[Duma]

3.5 %...

[tomtom]

[Fultonius]

Agree with Bonjoy.

More on Article 50 from DAG. Apologies for FB link but that's the only place it is at the moment.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1200279093330132&id=137432829614769

Puts to bed the "but the EU will make us trigger it" rubbish and more.

Do you reckon his site is down because too many people are reading it....or is it victim of a denial of service attack?

[Oldmanmatt]

The Canary (very Corbynite) has an interesting take.
The proximity of Chilcot report is mentioned and Caroline Lucas seems to be intervening.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/27/barely-weeks-murder-jo-cox-daily-mail-incites-people-kill-corbyn/


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