[petejh]

   Or in other words a stereotypical 70 year-old in graph form.

I don't fit that mold in any of the categories.

[Bonjoy]

Stereotypical contrarian then 

[Oldmanmatt]

I understand your disappointment Roddersm but your argument's going nowhere. For starters, the 25% who didn't vote - they don't count. Literally. Their voices don't count for anything in this issue (except for the tiny percentage unable to vote through sickness/ natural disaster etc.). Additionally no side can claim a voiceless 25% speak for them exclusively.

A linked point (not yours Roddersm I know) is the issue of young voters. The media is reporting howls of protest from young people (18-25) claiming 'not in my name'...
Young people 18-25 have consistently returned the lowest turnout in every recent election and referendum. To put it in context it's highly likely the turnout for 18-24 year-olds in this referendum will be in the mid 50%; compared to high 70% for older voters. That's well worth considering when a student is complaining that they've been disenfranchised. As an overall age group they've got what they put in, a life lesson there if ever there was one.

I agree with the obvious conclusion - voting should be compulsory to avoid these sorts of grumbles.

Possibly the first time on this thread. I agree with everything you wrote there.


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[Oldmanmatt]

  Or in other words a stereotypical 70 year-old in graph form.

I don't fit that mold in any of the categories.

Oh come on!

We all know how you hate the interweb thingy.


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[Stu Littlefair]

The Internet? Someone thinks the Internet is a force for ill?


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[DAVETHOMAS90]

Aside from the arguments to and fro, and the result - which I don't think is as surprising as some, how do folk feel about this?

Personally, I've never felt so completely  - not sure I can find the words - floored?, by a political decision.

It's too easy to look for reasons and causes, blame? How does how you feel about this, change what you think you can do?

Bit of an open question, and one that - despite my own feelings - hopefully doesn't read as targeted one way or the other.

[Stu Littlefair]

You know the feeling you had when you first jumped off Connor cove? The split second after you took off and thought "oh fuck, what have we done".

That's how I feel. Scared, uncertain and a tiny bit excited.


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[Muenchener]

As an overall age group they've got what they put in, a life lesson there if ever there was one.

I agree with the obvious conclusion - voting should be compulsory to avoid these sorts of grumbles.

Possibly the first time on this thread. I agree with everything you wrote there.

Those who have a strong opinion on a matter but can't be arsed to vote on it get what they deserve.

Compulsory voting would be a blatant violation of basic liberties, completely unenforceable and only even faintly acceptable as a concept if every ballot included an explicit "fuck 'em all / I don't care" option.

[Oldmanmatt]

I've never felt English.

Might sound daft, but born in Devon and raised from 5 in Cornwall, amongst my mothers Cornish family; "England" meant "Home counties" and we were the forgotten. The unheard.

It changed when I joined the Navy and my world view shifted.
But, there has been a lot of shit hurled (if you didn't see it, great) and I have unfriended old school friends on Farcebuck; who posted rank racist shit (predominantly about East Europeans) that cut me to the quick. Remember my kids are half Romanian and I know those people well.
Even had school parents telling me how great it would be without the foreigners in the school (all 12 out of 300), unaware that my kids are those foreigners.

I worry about the rise of the right, the new-found confidence of the idiots.
I, frankly, fear a lurch to the right.

My erstwhile Countymen, are of course a complete bunch of dicks:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html

And to them I have to say...




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[petejh]

Aside from the arguments to and fro, and the result - which I don't think is as surprising as some, how do folk feel about this?

Personally, I've never felt so completely  - not sure I can find the words - floored?, by a political decision.

It's too easy to look for reasons and causes, blame? How does how you feel about this, change what you think you can do?

Bit of an open question, and one that - despite my own feelings - hopefully doesn't read as targeted one way or the other.

I feel hope that people can make the most of an opportunity to build something good and special for the right reasons. Mixed with fear and a degree of skepticism that people will fuck it up for the wrong reasons.
Excitement. Surprise. A tiny bit of schadenfreude toward some imagined establishment perhaps, but only fleeting.
Mostly hope and optimism - that 20 years from now the country will be more socially equal, more dynamic across the spectrum of people, less heavily divided by wealth. I'm not dumb enough to think the blame for all these ills lies at the EU's door, I think this result is better understood as a glaring symptom of a more fundamental ill today. That is you can't progress too far ahead by leaving half your people behind.

[Duma]

Mostly hope and optimism - that 20 years from now the country will be more socially equal, [....], less heavily divided by wealth.

Seriously? That's what you think? How?

[tomtom]

Mostly hope and optimism - that 20 years from now the country will be more socially equal, [....], less heavily divided by wealth.

Seriously? That's what you think? How?

Go on Pete. What's the plan? How's that going to happen?

[erm, sam]

Pete, you are completely barking.

[Andy B]

I feel ashamed of my country today, and scared of an ever increasing chance of a near future with boris, trump and le pen at the helm.

I also don't think it is as simple as saying the young reap what they sow with a lower turnout, as we should be asking the reasons for their disenfranchisement.

[dave]

Compulsory voting would be a blatant violation of basic liberties, completely unenforceable and only even faintly acceptable as a concept if every ballot included an explicit "fuck 'em all / I don't care" option.

Australia has it don't they, how do they manage it?

[tomtom]

Compulsory voting would be a blatant violation of basic liberties, completely unenforceable and only even faintly acceptable as a concept if every ballot included an explicit "fuck 'em all / I don't care" option.

Australia has it don't they, how do they manage it?

50 lashes or eat a bowl of raw Kangaroo sphincter s.

[slackline]

Yes Australia does have compulsory voting.  You get a fine if you don't.

Still don't get 100% turn out though.

[jwi]

Belgium as well.

[Oldmanmatt]

How is compulsory voting a violation of human rights and yet (I'm guessing) you don't protest compulsory Jury service? Compulsory school attendance?
Anything, essentially, you may be compelled, by Government/Society/Law to do against your will?

Actually, as an aside, I always quite liked the concept of earning Franchise through service (not necessarily military, say, nursing, policing, CPS etc etc).

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[shark]

Yes Australia does have compulsory voting.  You get a fine if you don't.

Still don't get 100% turn out though.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/03/07/proposal-to-give-australian-voters-burgers-coffee-for-voting-in/

[lagerstarfish]

Actually, as an aside, I always quite liked the concept of earning Franchise through service (not necessarily military, say, nursing, policing, CPS etc etc).

yeah - I like this idea

maybe an exam as well

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Aside from the arguments to and fro, and the result - which I don't think is as surprising as some, how do folk feel about this?

Personally, I've never felt so completely  - not sure I can find the words - floored?, by a political decision.

It's too easy to look for reasons and causes, blame? How does how you feel about this, change what you think you can do?

Bit of an open question, and one that - despite my own feelings - hopefully doesn't read as targeted one way or the other.

I feel hope that people can make the most of an opportunity to build something good and special for the right reasons. Mixed with fear and a degree of skepticism that people will fuck it up for the wrong reasons.
Excitement. Surprise. A tiny bit of schadenfreude toward some imagined establishment perhaps, but only fleeting.
Mostly hope and optimism - that 20 years from now the country will be more socially equal, more dynamic across the spectrum of people, less heavily divided by wealth. I'm not dumb enough to think the blame for all these ills lies at the EU's door, I think this result is better understood as a glaring symptom of a more fundamental ill today. That is you can't progress too far ahead by leaving half your people behind.

Good points Pete, but I fear they don't reflect the motivations of the majority of the Leave vote - just my assumption.

I saw this in a local window the other day:




It reads:

"If the leave campaign was about how Britain could contribute more to the world if it left the EU then I'd be interested.

But it's not. It's about how Britain can give less and take more from the world - and how it can keep the rest of the world out.

Come on Britain - we're better than that."

[a dense loner]

Why should we have compulsory voting? I don't normally vote, I've really not much interest in who leads the country for 4 or maybe 8 yrs, they're just horses of a different colour to me. However this vote was different, you had a voice whether to stay in Europe or leave, that simple. I don't want to be in Europe so voted for leaving, so my vote here actually meant something to me. If others didn't feel as strongly about their vote and didn't vote that's up to them.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Why should we have compulsory voting? I don't normally vote, I've really not much interest in who leads the country for 4 or maybe 8 yrs, they're just horses of a different colour to me. However this vote was different, you had a voice whether to stay in Europe or leave, that simple. I don't want to be in Europe so voted for leaving, so my vote here actually meant something to me. If others didn't feel as strongly about their vote and didn't vote that's up to them.

That's very open and honest.

If the campaigning had been less divisive, we may have ended up with a different result. As has been raised elsewhere, the vote has possibly been a reflection of how misrepresented many people feel.

Sometimes open expression of opinion is better than claims to the truth of various whys and wherefores - the celebration of differences, resulting in better relations - and that is what I'd seen our place at the table in Europe as being about. Perhaps I over-estimate the opportunity lost in that regard.

 

[Muenchener]

How is compulsory voting a violation of human rights

You can't morally compel people to express an opinion they do not hold. Without the "fuck 'em all" option, you are effectively compelling people to state that they believe one of the candidates is a fit and competent choice. And if they don't?