[Wellsy]

I think it's more just that "respect the rock," which I do actually think of as being very important, is not something that was once upheld by one and all only to sink into the barbarity of modern Instagram climbing. There are plenty of things that people did in the past that were dodgy and plenty of things that respected climbers with years of experience who are unquestionably leading figures in the discipline do right now which are questionable (and there are plenty of people who only just got into it who are very strict with these things; I know someone with 1 year outdoor experience who was really unhappy with that video)

If it helps I am leaning somewhat towards if a route or problem is more fragile then one should take much more consideration before they whack a top rope on it for a bit of fun on something that's well above their max grade. In the same way that I don't like people trying Deliverance a hundred times over.

I am curious though as to whether the ethics extent to those who can do the problem. Like if I could do Deliverance and I went and lapped it 10 times a week, I also think that'd be poor form and disrespectful towards a problem that is eroding. Or rather disrespectful towards other climbers who might want to do it without me taking all the surface off. Thoughts?

[Steve R]

I agree with Wellsy though that there should not be any associated obligation to lead. If you have the ability to climb it reasonably well on a top-rope with no intention of leading, that's also totally fine.

Fair enough, I can see this is probably a more coherent view than what I was saying.  However I'd be more comfortable with the cultural sentiment on it being more 'Ok, if you're careful and you really want to' tather than 'totally fine'.  Guess it quickly becomes nuanced.

[Wood FT]

LIVE AND LET LIVE

SHARE IF YOU ARGREE

[andy moles]

However I'd be more comfortable with the cultural sentiment on it being more 'Ok, if you're careful and you really want to' tather than 'totally fine'.

Absolutely 

I abseiled down End of the Affair once a few years ago, not doing more than holding a couple of positions, just to satisfy my curiosity of what an E8 grit arete is like up close. Probably gained as much from that as I would from a top-rope session in terms of getting a taste of the thing.

[Steve R]

LIVE AND LET LIVE

Well yeah, that's the very thing you're trying to optimise for when you talk about a rawlsian equal liberty princi-zzzzzzzzz Christ just kill me now

[Wood FT]

LIVE AND LET LIVE

Well yeah, that's the very thing you're trying to optimise for when you talk about a rawlsian equal liberty princi-zzzzzzzzz Christ just kill me now

So many big words. What would Orwell say.

[webbo]

LIVE AND LET LIVE

Well yeah, that's the very thing you're trying to optimise for when you talk about a rawlsian equal liberty princi-zzzzzzzzz Christ just kill me now

So many big words. What would Orwell say.

“ You’ll be first against the wall come the revolution “

[danm]

I'm pretty sure it was "Knee pads good, crack gloves bad" but I could be wrong.

[Fiend]

Am I losing it or was there a time in relatively recent history when you'd get crucified (and you'd know and expect to get crucified and not just by Fiend)

I haven't watched the video as my digestion takes a wee bit of stress over the Xmas feasting anyway and I don't really want to be barfing myself inside out, but I get the gist including from what I've skimmed over in this thread, and good on people for highlighting and arguing against what sounds like very shoddy behaviour and even more shoddy clickbait promoting of such behaviour...

Climbers definitely could be using all the tools and skills to aim for better and better climbing style, and promoting better and better climbing style. It's as important than pure numerical difficulty if not more so.