[Bobling]

A couple of months ago I noticed my elbows were hurting whilst resting between climbs, the pain is right inside the elbows (left slightly worse than right) - i.e if you put your thumb and forefinger on the inside and outside of  the elbow the pain is equidistant between the two.  It is not a sharp pain, more of a dull throb - kind of like the pain you get in your wrists if you get RSI from typing too much.  I had an enforced rest through a running injury for about six weeks and thought that that amount of rest would cure it, but apparently not as it flared up again almost immediately.  I have had a couple of sports massages now and as long as I climb no more than once a week it doesn't seem to appear, but if I try to climb more frequently it does.  But I really want to a) try and work out what it was and b) climb whenever i want to, but more than once a week I mean what's the point of going to Font for a day's climbing?!

Anyone have any ideas/similar problems?  All thoughts appreciated...

Oh, and I now know for a fact - sport is bad for you.

[dave]

sounds a bit like font elbow.

[SA Chris]

Sounds like what plagued me for a while, like Dave says; font elbow? Hurts a lot, especially when hanging straight arm on slopers? I rested it for 5 month, while working for a ski season, thinking it would recover, but hurt as soon as I started climbing again, which, I believe now, was due to muscles/tendons shortening.

I stretch my inner elbow quite a bit now, and it hasn't really bothered me for a while, but I haven't really climbed hard for a while.

[Bobling]

Thanks for the info - so where do I find out a bit more about Font elbow?  Does it have a medical name? Any known cures? Any other sufferers out there who can help? Questions, questions, questions....

[unclesomebody]

all you need to do is learn how to stretch properly as part of your warm up and it will go away.  Just google for stretching exercises and find some that stretch the muscles along the top of you forearm and inside your elbow.

[webbo]

get the book pain free by pete egoscue. i've used the exercises and my elbow is relatively pain free :wink:

[Bubba]

Also, there's a great stretching site here

[T.H.]

Sounds like a classic case of tendonitis to me.  The usual way to stop it reoccuring is to warm-up better and rest better.

However, I used to get this REAL bad, and the way I got rid of it was to train my antagonists.  I always thought this sounded a load of nonsense, imbalanced joints and all that.  But I started training my triceps and I haven't had a twinge since.

Just one more suggestion for you.

[dave]

yo THZA, whats the best (read easiest) way to train triceps, without access to multigym-pulldown flavaz. i got some free dumbells, a theraband loop, a woody and a fingerboard. hit me with some shit onetime.

[Bubba]

- Pressups
- Dips using a strong sided chair
- Them things where you put your arms behind you on a bench, sit down with legs straight and press up and down with yer arms.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Them things where you put your arms behind you on a bench, sit down with legs straight and press up and down with yer arms

they rock. 3 sets of twelve nice and slow and don't move the arms below right angles and your triceps will feel like they've died (in the best possible way though).

[SA Chris]

Or lie on your back, elbows in the air, and lift the dumbells from above your head (no ide what its called)

[Bubba]

Some people call them Skull Crushers for the obvious reason.

Tricep kickbacks are good too.

[a dense loner]

triceps extentions perchance. stand there with one arm vertical, put other hand behind head n support arm from goin back, lower arm to right angle n extend back up to just before locking out. we are talkin about strong triceps here so take time to do them. also lie on back n do virtually the same thing, this is a bit more awkward wi dumbbells, get a small barbell n do it two handed. you'll soon look like willenburg.
if you're normal :? your triceps will be weaker than your biceps at first. this will quite soon turn around. then you will be able to go n kick chalk in peoples faces

[dave]

triceps extentions perchance. stand there with one arm vertical, put other hand behind head n support arm from goin back, lower arm to right angle n extend back up to just before locking out.

yeah i've tried them before, they are just a ballache to do with any kind of weight cos your arm tends to flop all over the place. thats why i want tricep excersises that are "easy" to do, i.e. don't require amazing body control to do them. i've half been thinking of riggin up me own pulldown bar in the cellar with some cord, a bit of broomhandle and a pulley or summert fixed to a rafter.

do pressups really work triceps, o though it was more shoulders and ting?

[Bubba]

Pressups will work the shoulders, chest and triceps so are a great all round exercise.

Try some tricep kickbacks - they're pretty easy to do:

[cofe]

tricep curls are what i do, do them with a lighter weight but lower (i.e. extend) them down really slowly. it's fairly easy to hold arm steady but you feel the burn after about 10 when you get the weight right - you just need to play around a bit. this apparently trains eccentric control and strength.

[a dense loner]

press ups are quite useless for working triceps. they're good to a very soon reached point. but try press ups with your hands meetin, forefinger n thumbs, shuffle feet towards you about a foot n start doin push ups. you will prob look like T.H warmin up. these are hard n will blow your little arms away

[Bubba]

press ups are quite useless for working triceps.

With all respect dense, that is bollox.

They don't isolate your triceps like kickbacks will do, but the still work them well. For a climber just trying to do some antagonistic exercises, they're a good exercise because it works several muscle groups at the same time.

[Bubba]

Dips are good too, and easy to add weight with a harness.

[Bobling]

Cheers for all the help folks, I think stretching/warm ups and strengthening exercises are the key then.  Guess I might even invest in some dumbells from the sounds of it.

[a dense loner]

with all due respect bubba, if you're goin to lambast me please put in the rest of my sentence which was "they're good to a very soon reached point". this is true., this is not bollox. they are a very good all round exercise. however they are not very good for giving you tricep strength. neither are kickbacks which only accentuate the muscle. basically pushdowns n extentions are the only things you should be doin to increase tricep strength, them press up thingies i mentioned are good, also to a point. you can then use them to warm up into your weights. the one problem with climbers is because they go to a wall they think they are strong, they then think they are strong in every part of their body. this is not so. climbers basically go to a gym n do pull ups or pull downs to show the big boys how strong they are!

[a dense loner]

ps dips are good, if you want to get strong in any one part of the body, just train that one part. then add the bigger muscle groups to totally waste that one part. ie pushdown, extentions then press ups. cos by this time press ups are harder but you can still do them cos the back will take over but you will still be working triceps.

[dave]

thanks marius gresham there. whens your next coaching weekend on? lets have it.

[Bubba]

please put in the rest of my sentence which was "they're good to a very soon reached point"

Well, I didn't really understand what that meant!

If you mean you reach the point where you can do them endlessly, then just add weight (rucksac, girlfriend, etc). We're talking stuff that's easy to do at home here I thought. Don't rate one arm pressups that much, they put a nasty strain on your spine.

I've found kickbacks very good in the past, but the best thing by far I've done is weighted dips.
 
I agree, pushdowns are good, but they're more of a gym thang, unless you wanna start messing about with pulleys and that.

[cofe]

thanks marius gresham there. whens your next coaching weekend on? lets have it.

damn, i'm assuming it'll be at wimberry  - i'd love to go but i'll be too busy doing the nose again at burbage

[T.H.]

If you really want triceps of steel get yourself four concrete blocks.  Place them about a foot from a wall, two stacked on each side with a gap big enough for your head then do a hand stand with your hands on the blocks, resting your legs against the wall (or just balance there if you're a circus monkey).  Then start cranking.

This obviously works your Triceps big time, it also builds up your Deltoid (the muscle that caps your shoulder) which is going to further increase the balance of your shoulders, what with us all having Lats we could use to fly with.  The concrete blocks allow for the full range of movement to be worked.

You must all have an image of me looking a right weirdo whenever I train, which is probably very accurate.

[cofe]

words fail me.

TH warming his legs up down the wall, by pulling a train:



but its ok, we don't think you're a weirdo.... :clapclap:

[dave]

then a couple of atlas stones to get the arms going.

[account_inactive]

I found that breaking my legs and then using a wheelchair and crutches for a long time game me awsome pressing strength.  Problem being that you are adding extra weight to your arms making it harder for the fingers to compensate.  I haven't seen any tests on this but it made a difference to me compared with just putting weight disapated throughout the body.  Its something to do with Physics as Stu Littleflair he's a boffin :frank:

[Tim Heaton]

If you want exercises for any bit of the body all you have to do is click on the corresponding part on this page and it comes up with a million and one suggestions.

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/MMale.html

I would suggest doing the ones in bold which also say they are the compound exercises i.e. work several muscle groups rather than just the triceps. Personally I have found weighted dips (shoulder width grip) to be the best but vertical pushups are also good, I also quite like close grip bench press. If you are beastly strong then you could try planche pressups a la olympic gymnasts:

http://www.drillsandskills.com/images/display?path=planch.jpg

Do a pressup from this position - how????

Loads of other body weight exercises you can do are also to be found on this page:

http://www.drillsandskills.com/skills/cond/upper

They seem to work for gymnasts and on the T.V. they look nails so should work for mortals too.  

[T.H.]

           

Great pictures.  I might try those exercises next time I train.

[MrBlue]

just to add to the confusion...
any advice for clicking elbows? when doing my antagonist exercises (dips/pushups) my elbows click, which is a bit offputting. mostly when doing pushups actually...

:roll:

[account_inactive]

Clicking is fairly normal, especially in joints and not usually anything to worry about as long as the clicks don't get progressivly louder or worse!  

.............................But then again I'm no Doctor

[T Nagler]

The clicking in my elbows is getting progressively louder and worse!  They sometimes lock at about 120 degrees when I'm trying to straighten them (not when climbing), and when I bend my arm back and straighten it smoothly with momentum it makes a loud clicking noise (very audible to those around).  This clicking noise is getting louder and last time it happened it made an extremely loud and this time dull clicking noise (like throwing a large stone at a hollow log!)  :shock:  :freak: !

Has anybody elce had this/ hurd of this?!

[dave]

think clicking is just air bubbles trapped somewhere in the joints, don't think its owt to worry about unless it is painfull. most joints in my body will crack upon request since i was at junior school (toes, ankles, knees, shoulders, elbows, wrists, fingers) and its not causing me any problems.

[account_inactive]

Trev, I'd go and see a physio :shock:

At your age that's not a good sign and although it probably will not stopping you climbing now its going to in the future.

think clicking is just air bubbles trapped somewhere in the joints, don't think its owt to worry about unless it is painfull. most joints in my body will crack upon request since i was at junior school (toes, ankles, knees, shoulders, elbows, wrists, fingers) and its not causing me any problems

This is true apart from when things start to get louder after each click or pop.  Why would an air bubble start making a louder noise?  A lot of the noise is cause from substrate tissue being inactive and then stretched back to full range

[dave]

my clicks tend to tail off after the first one or two. pretty sure i once got a fiver out of my big toe  :

[Fingers of a Martyr]

They sometimes lock at about 120 degrees when I'm trying to straighten them (not when climbing), and when I bend my arm back and straighten it smoothly with momentum it makes a loud clicking noise

mine will occasionally do the exact same thing, but only really first thing in the morning. but the clicks aren't getting louder, they're not painful and they've been doing it for ages now. in fact i just did it now. :D
my mate's elbows also do same thing.

[MrBlue]

This is true apart from when things start to get louder after each click or pop.  Why would an air bubble start making a louder noise?  A lot of the noise is cause from substrate tissue being inactive and then stretched back to full range

i asked my physio about this, as most of my joints click...

if it's a 'popping' sound then it's air bubbles,

if the sound is a louder 'crack' then it's either bone catching on the tendon or bone catching on bone as the joints move. the more you click the joints, the more they click. my fingers started with the odd click, i thought it was fun to crack them and now i can pretty much crack every one at will - not good.

it' the same with my neck; my physio cracked it to release tension across my shoulders, it now cracks of its own accord, which is or isn't a good thing. cod liver oil seems to help add some cusioning to it, but i guess you just have to be careful.

i originally asked about my elbows clicking as it was putting me off doing my antagonist exercises, something i really need to do to stop a shoulder injury recurring

[JR]

think clicking is just air bubbles trapped somewhere in the joints, don't think its owt to worry about unless it is painfull. most joints in my body will crack upon request since i was at junior school (toes, ankles, knees, shoulders, elbows, wrists, fingers) and its not causing me any problems.

not necessarilly true...

It can be caused by loose ligaments, or ligaments that have been overstreched and cause the joint to move slighlty out of line.  Not necessarilly serious and not necessarilly injury related.  Essentially a very toned down version of what ive got in my elbow.  If the clicks a bit duller and deeper than say the usual, morning clicks its more likely that.

[JR]

if the sound is a louder 'crack' then it's either bone catching on the tendon or bone catching on bone as the joints move. the more you click the joints, the more they click. my fingers started with the odd click, i thought it was fun to crack them and now i can pretty much crack every one at will - not good.

Thats what im syaing too essentially

[T Nagler]

Fingers- Don't mean to allarm you but mine don't hurt either, and I had it for a while before it got any worse!

[Fingers of a Martyr]

for me, a while = 6 months
u?
see below.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

basically elbows click if i've been sitting with my arms crossed for a while etc and then i stretch them out fully.
however they used to lock like u described but they've stopped doing that after doing all those tricep excercises.
i can also click neck and fingers at will as well. :?

[T Nagler]

About 6/8 months!  And its only recently been geting worse!   Never realy train my tryceps though (don't do much specific training at all) so should probably start (especcially as I'm about to start training harder/smarter!).

[T Nagler]

Did your fingers and neck start to click when you started climbing?

[Fingers of a Martyr]

whenever i go to stretch my fingers out they all crack. i honestly can't remember when it started. a good while ago though.

did u go and see a physio trevor?

[unclesomebody]

that is a very bad sign.  I would definitelt start thinking about long term training and not pounding the board every day because it sounds like you're doing yourself some damage.  I know it's hard to say "i will train effectively over the next 12 months, but at the end be strong" because you always want to go and "train".  However, it's totally ineffective because you'll get injured and have ot take time off.  Better to train smart for 12 months than train mega hard for 6 months then have torest for 6 months.  Just listen to your body!  If it's poppin and crackin then it probably isn't happy!

[T Nagler]

Fingers- No I havn't seen a physio yet, but I've started doing some trycep stuff after my climbing sessions.  If it dosnt sort its self out after that then I think I will deffinetly have to go!  And while im there I should probably get my: knees, abs, fingers, general postureseen to too! :shock:  :shock:  :freak:

[T Nagler]

uncle- who are you talking to (me or fingers)?

[Fingers of a Martyr]

did u ever get to a physio travor?
has the clicking stopped or got any better?

[T Nagler]

no I didn't, but ive just got round to doing some tryceps stuff, and I havnt had any loud hollow clicks lately (although I do get lots of minor ones). So things are looking up.

How are your clicking joints?

[Fingers of a Martyr]

pretty much the same mate. no locking or really loud clicks since i did the tricep shit but still minor ones like yourself. :?
who knows, can't be that serious otherwise u'd think it wud hurt or summit. :D

[T Nagler]

who knows, can't be that serious otherwise u'd think it wud hurt or summit. :D[/quote]

hmmm. :?