[TheTwig]

Interested in how many people have tried taking Cissus Quadrangularis to help with recovery or injuries. Surprised there hasn't been a thread on this before. Anyone? (activates flame-shield)

[petejh]

http://examine.com/supplements/cissus-quadrangularis/

Don't worry, Sloper 'if it isn't a treatment by a consultant surgeon it isn't gold standard' is now long gone.

(I haven't tried it)

[Three Nine]

If u look for 'Mega Cissus' on myprotein there's a ton of positive reviews. Means dick all of course, but I will experiment at some stage cos im a sucker for this sort of shit.

[TheTwig]

I've been taking the USPlabs(sp?) 3 a day cissus capsules (2400mg total daily) from bulkpowders for about 6 weeks now and have noticed a huge difference in how quickly my fingers recover from climbing. The volume and intensity of climbing I've managed in the last month would have put me in hospital at the start of the year I reckon. 

Anyway, another useless anecdote for all the scientists out there. Just curious if anyone else has tried, or thinking of trying Cissus. Just wish the stuff wasn't so damn expensive

[Three Nine]

I guess the more expensive they are, the bigger placebo effect you get...

[SA Chris]

[rodma]

it'll probably turn out to feel like it works because it has a mild anti inflammatory effect like glucosamine

[petejh]

If u look for 'Mega Cissus' on myprotein there's a ton of positive reviews. Means dick all of course, but I will experiment at some stage cos im a sucker for this sort of shit.

Have you tried this yet three nine?

I got a tub of mega cissus last week to see what effect it would have on the healing of my bicep longhead tendon and brachioradialis. It defo feels like an effective anti-inflammatory/analgesic but without the side effects of ibuprofen. All minor joint aches I've had recently faded within a couple of day of taking it so a nice strong placebo effect if nothing else.
Also haven't slept this well in a long time and feel in surprisingly good mood despite being injured and it being the middle of winter - I assume it's to do with increased serotonin.. or another placebo effect. I'll take either.

[Three Nine]

Yeah, i've been smashing about 3.2g a day for a week. Barrows has bought some too. I'm not sure i've noticed any effects, but its hard to tell. If im honest, i'm not sure I notice the effects of ibuprofen when I take it.

I wasnt aware it had an effect on serotonin? I take 150g venlafaxine daily (and have for years), and so i'm not supposed to take anything which might affect serotonin because of the risk of serotonin syndrome. So i did searches for interactions between cissus and venlafaxine/effexor and nothing came up, so I assume any effect on serotonin must be very slight indeed.

[abarro81]

I've been taking it a week or so and I notice nothing whatsoever, but I wasn't expecting to. I'm just doing anything I can to make me feel like my finger will be getting better; in a normal situation I wouldn't spend the money.

[slackline]

or another placebo effect. I'll take either.

Placebo effects are weak: regression to the mean is the main reason ineffective treatments appear to work

You'd have seen improvements anyway.

[Lund]

I wasnt aware it had an effect on serotonin? I take 150g venlafaxine daily (and have for years), and so i'm not supposed to take anything which might affect serotonin because of the risk of serotonin syndrome. So i did searches for interactions between cissus and venlafaxine/effexor and nothing came up, so I assume any effect on serotonin must be very slight indeed.

This is significant.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17274828

The increase in plasma 5-HT and creatinine

5-HT is short for  5-hydroxytryptamine which is the chemical name for serotonin.

[Lund]

This site has some good links and notes on it.

http://examine.com/supplements/cissus-quadrangularis/

[Three Nine]

Maybe I should stop taking it until okayed by a doctor.

[Three Nine]

Isn't there this blood brain barrier thing?

[slackline]

Isn't there this blood brain barrier thing?

Yes but its permeable since the brain is an organ and needs oxygen to respire, blood delivers that and other things neurons need like fuel.

[Three Nine]

Isn't there this blood brain barrier thing?

Yes but its permeable since the brain is an organ and needs oxygen to respire, blood delivers that and other things neurons need like fuel.

balls. i bet i get a shit obituary

[petejh]

or another placebo effect. I'll take either.

Placebo effects are weak: regression to the mean is the main reason ineffective treatments appear to work

You'd have seen improvements anyway.

Regression to the mean is a stato's way of saying 'time heals'. Which in the mean I agree with strongly 

... But, without having any information about me, if you actually believe the above - rather than just reflexively posting it as a kind of auto statbot's response to somebody posting about a bodily state changing from one state to another - then I think you're being quite flippant to assume regression to the mean without knowing about me - and hence what the mean actually is.

E.g. You don't know whether over the last 5 or 10 years at this time of year I normally do or don't experience a drop in mood; what else has recently been going on in life (defo significant to 'the mean' in this case if talking in timescale of months and nothing to do with injury, I won't go into it); plus a bunch of other things known to me but not to you which might affect what is 'the mean'.

Then there's the strong association between winter's lack of daylight with reduced serotonin levels in some people (and thus mood), and which normally lasts until the days are longer. Well worth looking up for anyone interested. An 'expected' RTTM for such a person wouldn't happen until late Feb/early March - not mid December.

I think it's noteworthy that, within a few days of taking a herb for which the evidence is strong that it increases serotonin levels (not the reason I took it), I quickly went from consistently feeling one way to consistently feeling another, when the only variable that changed - other than a short passage of time and the days becoming slightly shorter - was taking the herb. I'm entirely open to the idea that my experience is due to placebo. But unless by 'you'd have seen improvements anyway [because time changes health state]' you unknowingly meant 'after having resolved xyz' and 'by waiting until spring', I can't agree.

[Lund]

Maybe I should stop taking it until okayed by a doctor.

That is a good idea in this case.

[Lund]

Isn't there this blood brain barrier thing?

Yes but its permeable since the brain is an organ and needs oxygen to respire, blood delivers that and other things neurons need like fuel.

This was (as usual) an incomplete answer.

There is a Blood Brain Barrier, but unlike most things, serotonin can (maybe?) cross it.  It was thought that it could not traverse the barrier, but there have been a few studies that show it can, like this one:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445233.  So it's probably best to assume it can and stop taking it.

[slackline]

This was (as usual) an incomplete answer.

Its my job to educate people in everything when they have the wealth of human knowledge at their fingertips themselves?

Anyone can search PubMed, or any other database, if they are inclined to do so.

[slackline]

... But, without having any information about me, if you actually believe the above - rather than just reflexively posting it as a kind of auto statbot's response to somebody posting about a bodily state changing from one state to another - then I think you're being quite flippant to assume regression to the mean without knowing about me - and hence what the mean actually is.

When suggesting "time heals" I was thinking about your stated tendon injuries rather than your state of mind which is, as you go on to describe, a far more complex situation.

[Three Nine]

This was (as usual) an incomplete answer.

Its my job to educate people in everything when they have the wealth of human knowledge at their fingertips themselves?

Anyone can search PubMed, or any other database, if they are inclined to do so.

I'm a fuckin retard tho, and I appreciate having things explained to me by Lund

[Lund]

This was (as usual) an incomplete answer.

Its my job to educate people in everything when they have the wealth of human knowledge at their fingertips themselves?

Anyone can search PubMed, or any other database, if they are inclined to do so.

Then say nothing.

[lagerstarfish]

Then say nothing.

I was previously unaware of this as an option

[TheTwig]

Interesting to see more people are trying Cissus. It's done wonders for my fingers, I definitely feel less pain after hard training sessions and they seem to be recovering quicker between sessions. Just as well really as all my climbing partners have deserted me and I'm stuck bouldering 3 days a week. I fucking hate living in the south-east!

Good luck Abarro : )

[Fultonius]

[/Coolaid] 

[TheTwig]

The best bit about drinking the Kool Aid is it tastes so good, and you get to feel so smug about all the people not drinking it