[Fingers of a Martyr]

i think its a bit harsh that the guy gets loads of shit, and its not hard to see why, but it would be so easy to sort it all out. you're simply asking for trouble by claiming all these incredibly hard ascents with absolutley no evidence. but one or two videos would solve an awful lot of doubts.

[dave]

or even a credible witness.

[Sloper]

Lets have a whip round and get Si down from Skye and finally have ascents of the groove problem at burbage north, smiling buttress, the groove at cratcliffe, direct start to deliverance etc.

[dave]

direct start to deliverance

i thought for a minute there you were listing things which haven't been done.

[Bubba]

Or everyone could stop whinging from their armchairs and take a trip to Skye to try the problems.

It's only a few hundred miles, and it's a very beautiful part of Britain.

You could even do the Cuillin Ridge while your there  

[Sloper]

I wasn't aware the direct start to deliverance had been done.

[a dense loner]

a good idea in theory. however, i think the point being made is how do we know these problems have been done in the first place!

[dave]

I wasn't aware the direct start to deliverance had been done.

aye its been done loads (not by me mind) even from sitting, manteling it out i think. also been done in trainers.

[Bubba]

How do you know they haven't?

[dave]

thing is its possible to prove something has been climbed, but basically impossible to prove something hasn't. thus you've got to assume things haven't by default, otherwise you have potentially no unclimbed rock in the UK!

[Bubba]

He's got the photos on 8a.nu - they don't *prove* shit. Nor would video really, would it? People would just say it's edited.

To everyone: Look, I'm getting so bored of this topic that keeps rearing it's head, I'm thinking of just locking this thread.

This issue will go round and round in circles until either:

a) Everyone takes the man in good faith and shuts up - not very likely.
b) A strong team stops whinging and gets up there to repeat the problems and adjust the grades if necessary (also not very likeley because at the end of the day people prefer to sit and snipe from a computer.

Failing that, you could choose to dis-believe without any actual *evidence* to do so and just whinge on here. Now that's fine, but change the fucking record please and talk about something else :roll:

We went through all this same bullshit with the Steve Dunning thread not so long ago.

[dave]

don't wanna stir stuff up bubba but what evidence can possibly prove someone didn't climb something? as i said above you can't prove someone dind't do something, whihc is why climbing is open to abuse from dishonest people. i mean what do we expect, a video of no-one on a peice of rock? in this situation it cannot be the doubters responsibility to prove wrong,  (as its impossible) but thus the claimant's job to prove right, or to not get into a doubtable position in the first place. I know its a sad state of affairs but thats life.

you know from private discussions that even when people are very close to a doubted person its impossible to disprove any claims with 100% certainty unless you put some one under 24hr surveilance.. I don't think not discussing these matters will get anyone anywhere.

[Bubba]

If somebody was there on the day that the ascent was claimed, and the person obviously didn't climb the problem as claimed, then that at least goes some way to prove that they are lying. Of course you can prove that somebody didn't do something.
If I was wrongly accused of murder and there were witnesses that could confirm I was somewhere else at the time, then it could be proved that I wasn't the murderer.

We all know that claims in climbing are open to abuse. They always have been and always will be. There's nothing that can be done about it.

As I've said, the only way for people to put this one to rest is to go there and try the problems. Nothing short of that is going to stop this ridiculous state of affairs is it?
Ok, Si O could stop claiming hard problems, but that's equally unlikely. Either he's having a laugh at the expense of people like those on here who keep rising to the bait, or, he is in fact an 8c climber, or lastly he believes he is an 8c climber.

[jonP]

you know from private discussions that even when people are very close to a doubted person

Ah, back to Mr Heason ...

[Mr.Burns]

what we need is a skye bouldering meet? Then everyone can see for themselves what simon connor can really do.

 

[Fiend]

I respect your stance on the state of this debate, B-man. Although Si's problems do seem more open to most to doubt due to their location, obscurity, and "too good to be true" style of ascent, it is only fair to try to avoid yet another witchhunt.

After all the only thing that will genuinely interesting to come out of this will be the truth.

[a dense loner]

never mind all this, the direct start to deliverence is known as the "local's are you local problem". it is to be done in trainers (5.10's) first problem, first go, no warm up. i hasten to add it is not done by me but by others

[dave]

a one-armed ascent of this would surely be the jewel in the crown of peak district bouldering.

[Bubba]

After all the only thing that will genuinely interesting to come out of this will be the truth.

Exactly - I doubt that there is a *single person* in the country that believes that the claimed problems are 8c, or that somebody can do so many hard problems in such a short space of time.

My point is that unless people are prepared to go and check these things out for real, and do something constructive about it,  these topics are pointless, dull and help feed a lot of general bad feeling that seems to be around in the climbing community at the moment.

[SA Chris]

I don't even think good video evidence is enough, even if it is filmed in one take. Assuming its not been edited/fiddled, unless its an established problem how can you tell how hard something is by looking at a video? Sharma makes Dreamtime look doable. On video.

[tc]

I understand Dave McLeod has been up there for a play (latest Climber mag?)
Si's Lakes problems have also been checked out by various people. I am unaware of any concensus having been formed, however. Or, indeed, any details.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Sharma makes Dreamtime look doable. On video

he fuckin walks it :cry:

but back to the original point i think the 'get a strong team and send them up to skye to meet si and check out his stuff' would easily be the best and simplest way of sorting it out.

[dave]

but back to the original point i think the 'get a strong team and send them up to skye to meet si and check out his stuff' would easily be the best and simplest way of sorting it out.

it would most likely not solve anything though. even if the stuff didn turn out to be of the standard claimed,  you'd still no know if they can actually been climbed.

do i remember hearing that some guy pete marsh go there and do some of Si's stuff anyway?

[Fingers of a Martyr]

sorry i meant get smith, earl, moon and a couple of video cameras to meet up with si and he can show them round climb some problems for them and then they might get some repeats.

do i remember hearing that some guy pete marsh go there and do some of Si's stuff anyway

i remember that and as soon as anyone started chattin about he removed from his scorecard.

[Bubba]

Ok. Enough.

This isn't getting anywhere and once again has come back to the same old issue that proof is required for any hard ascents these days.

Such proof has to come from video, or "reliable" witnesses, though of course the reliablilty of any witness is dependent upon who you talk to.

This whole issue was done to death recently on this thread:

http://ukbouldering.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2452

It's a sad state of affairs, but some people seem to like it this way.

Roll on the "hard ascents judging committee" that will need to be in place for anyone who's not part of a well known clique to be believed for anything in the future.

This isn't news anymore, it's just a bitching session.