[Fultonius]

I need to fix the shower in my mum's bathroom. It's a plain hot/cold mixer shower with no flow control or thermostat (just twist for temperature). The problem is the internal flow restrictor (chrome says this word does not exist...) has disintegrated and we have very high cold water pressure, so we either have a ludicrous power-shower, or have to turn on the cold tap in the utility room to bleed off some flow. Not ideal.

One can buy replacement flow restrictors for the shower, but they are expensive and look fiddly. I was thinking it would potentially be cheaper and easier to buy an in-line restrictor that I could install on the cold water inlet. In fact, a replacement elbow with built in flow restrictor would save any pipe cutting.

Any thoughts on the feasibility of this? Or should I just get the one for the shower and accept that it's a job that will need doing every few years?   

[tomtom]

Do you have one of the little in line isolator valves on the tap feed? If so you can fettle these so they're nearly off thus restricting the pressure - it's a bodge but worked on mrsTT's loo that was knackerig the ball cock with high pressure...

[tomtom]

. I mean one of these..

[Oldmanmatt]

I'd go with TT's solution.

There is a good argument for doing it properly, however, and this will probably not be as hard as you imagine.


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[butters]

I suspect that you will need to fit an in line restrictor and replace the internal flow restrictor to do the job properly and stop it breaking again. As TT points out the underlying issue is the high water pressure and that in turn is breaking the shower.

[Fultonius]

I suspect that you will need to fit an in line restrictor and replace the internal flow restrictor to do the job properly and stop it breaking again. As TT points out the underlying issue is the high water pressure and that in turn is breaking the shower.

That was my thought. Now, the only ones I've seen so far seem to have plastic internals. I've just looked at the plumbing behind the wall and it's plastic piping so I should be able to squeeze one in without too much hassle.

Anyone got a link to a decent restricet? My google searches so far are not going so well.

[Fultonius]

Another thought is to bung one of these in the line (there is currently no isolation valve) and keep it half shut. Full bore metal internals so it should last pretty well.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/full-bore-lever-ball-valve-15mm/80413#product_additional_details_container

[butters]

The in line restrictor should be fitted on the main feed in as I understand it so that it regulates the pressure for the entire house as opposed to just the shower itself which is what you are trying to do. If you are going down that route then is there not an isolator valve already in place that you can half shut as suggested by TT earlier? No point in reinventing the wheel etc.

[Oldmanmatt]

The problem with the "half shut valve" or orifice plate type solution is that whilst it restricts flow, pressure will equalise across the valve when no flow is occurring. That give an initial "spurt" when you open a tap.

That "hydraulic shock" across your whole water system could, over time, cause other problems; particularly on more recent houses with "push fit" plastic piping systems.

So I would look at just doing it locally for the shower, where an individual shut off would/could be handy anyway.

Long term global solution is a "Pressure reducing valve" after your stopcock.
Not earth-shattering in cost, but more than the stop-gaps.


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[Oldmanmatt]

http://m.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/pressure-reducing-valves/cat3830010


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[Fultonius]

We could do a PRV but the house is big with lots of piping spread around so we'd be concerned that the flow would be too low elsewhere.

For £4 I might just try the ball valve at the shower inlet and see how it goes.

[rodma]

You can fit a prv just before the shower if you want, but since flow rate seems to be your problem, the ball valve solution sounds like an OK idea.

They're should be nrv's on the hot and cold feed to the shower to prevent other issues. Work chucking in if they aren't already there.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Using an in line shut off valve to reduce flow is a bad idea. To reduce flow significantly it has to be almost closed. Consequently limescale and grit will eventually block it. You then have to regularly fully open and close it to clear the grid. Good chance it will seize and you can't turn it. Also they are designed to be fully closed or opened and only occasionally. Can leak quite often. As said they don't actually reduce pressure. Do it properly with a new shower or prv.

[Fultonius]

Using an in line shut off valve to reduce flow is a bad idea. To reduce flow significantly it has to be almost closed. Consequently limescale and grit will eventually block it. You then have to regularly fully open and close it to clear the grid. Good chance it will seize and you can't turn it. Also they are designed to be fully closed or opened and only occasionally. Can leak quite often. As said they don't actually reduce pressure. Do it properly with a new shower or prv.

It is a relatively new shower, so there's no way we're chucking that out - It has it's own built-in flow restrictor, which has disintegrated and failed. We could replace that but it's 1/4 the price of a new shower.

I take your point about running a shut-off valve as a flow control valve, I've told numerous offshore operators to stop doing that over the years, but thought on a house system it'd probably be ok, especially since we don't get limescale. (no lime in Scotland)

I still think and in-line restrictor would be the best plan (rather than a PRV on the mains inlet for the house) but I haven't yet found a suitable one.

[Fultonius]

 

I wish I had just taken the shower apart right at the start. Second hand info from the plumber via my mum led me to believe the flow regulator in the shower was knackered and that we "needed" a PRV on the main inlet.

In fact, the rubber o-ring had been dislodged and was not operating correctly, but there was nothing actually damaged in the regulator. SO, o-ring fiddled and the shower is back down to less-than-fire-hose flow rates.

Thanks for the input all, sorry for wasting your time. 

[tomtom]

I wish I had just taken the shower apart right at the start. Second hand info from the plumber via my mum led me to believe the flow regulator in the shower was knackered and that we "needed" a PRV on the main inlet.

In fact, the rubber o-ring had been dislodged and was not operating correctly, but there was nothing actually damaged in the regulator. SO, o-ring fiddled and the shower is back down to less-than-fire-hose flow rates.

Thanks for the input all, sorry for wasting your time. 

glad its sorted!

I've got the pressure in the bog reduced on the shut off valve - as the ballcock in there as the fitted (high pressure) thingy for the seal (a bit of plastic that clips off) had become worn/broken and it conveniently had a low pressure one clipped on the side of the ball cock mechanism.. so rather than buy a new one (couldn't find the same one to replace anywhere and just get the spare part) I reduced the pressure and fitted the low pressure valve etc.. its a bit of a bodge but probably saves me having to change the whole thing for another few years...

[galpinos]

I take your point about running a shut-off valve as a flow control valve, I've told numerous offshore operators to stop doing that over the years

I was going to say in your line of work, you shouldn't even consider using a ball valve to regulate flow!

[Fultonius]

I take your point about running a shut-off valve as a flow control valve, I've told numerous offshore operators to stop doing that over the years

I was going to say in your line of work, you shouldn't even consider using a ball valve to regulate flow!

   I know, but I'm used to dealing with valves seeing 200m^3/hr and 200bar pressure drop, not piddly shower pipes.    Should I chuck in a 12 stage multi trim flow control valve or would that be overkill?

[Oldmanmatt]

I take your point about running a shut-off valve as a flow control valve, I've told numerous offshore operators to stop doing that over the years

I was going to say in your line of work, you shouldn't even consider using a ball valve to regulate flow!

We are talking about a domestic shower with~<=20ltr/day flow and intermittent at that...


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[dontfollowme]

Does anyone know if a stop cock that is leaking )which is located in my back garden) is the responsibility mine or the water company to fix? Access is via a foot deep narrow hole.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Does anyone know if a stop cock that is leaking )which is located in my back garden) is the responsibility mine or the water company to fix? Access is via a foot deep narrow hole.

If its on your property think it's you. If its on the street think it's them.
https://www.yorkshirewater.com/leak worth checking with your local water company but suspect they will be them same.

[Oldmanmatt]

If you have a meter, there will be a primary isolation at the meter. You can shut it off there to change/repair the one on your property. AFAIK pipe work etc on your property (basically after the meter) is your responsibility.


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[dontfollowme]

Thanks both, I don't understand why the water company need to visit when they already know the leak is on my property.

I'm on rates so no meter.

[Paul B]

It'll be your responsibility. You can take out insurance against this (through the water companies and no doubt others).

[butters]

Recalling a conversation at work I think of the stop cock is less than 1 metre inside your boundary then it is the responsibility of the water board but otherwise it's yours. That's assuming my memory is any good but just having got back from Rubicon I am a bit confused due to cricket!