[DAVETHOMAS90]

 Will Hunt +1

What an effing pain in the butt all this filming is.

[Climbing in Pajamas]

So I know I'm a bit late on the Bandwagon of Ellis bashing but here goes nothing. Ellis is a good friend of mine and we have been on a few climbing trips together including the Font trip he climbed Fat Man and the magic woods trip he climbed Dark Matter.
Fat man is super old news! and i can't really be bothered to go there! I didn't see him climb it. But I did see him do all the moves and a link from one move in. I Don't know but I believe it has been repeated since the break by others and maybe if some of you would like to send me a photo of the official start holds I will confirm if he climbed it or not! But I do (probably) In my harddrive have some footage of him doing it from one move in. But as far as I know he climbed it from what we believed gathered to be the start holds from 7+8.

As for Dark Matter I can with %100 certainty say he did climb it! I was working darkness to sunshine while he was working dark matter. To my knowledge and from what the guide says it has 3 official starts! the first in the sit start from the back of the cave at 8B+/8C, the second is a stand from the same start as Remembrance at 8B/+ and the third as from darkness to sunshine 7c+/8a(alot of / grades). Ellis climbed the middle start. While I was with him I saw him make two major links on the route both times falling off on a droppable 5b(ish)move right at the very end. He then took a rest day and climbed the full line. He went off at 6 in the morning to get good conditions and I said I would meet him down there as I'm not a morning person. He returned around 8/9 while I was having breakfast and had done the route.
Yes route it's Fucking long!

Although I didn't see him climb it having been down there most of the time he was working it I am surprised he didn't get it quicker! He was so close so many times and made the 7c/8a section look like 6a!
And I truly believe that if any of you that doubt him had simply been climbing with him even on an off day there would not be a question in your mind! He puts an unbelieveable amount of effort in and it makes me so angry to see a group of angry old men setting at their computers putting down the achievements the stronger younger climbers.

The climb is very hard to film and impossible to get in one angle! anyone who has actually been to magic woods would know this! I have uploaded some footage ellis took a few days earlier of a warm up attempt.

I decided not to film anything that trip as I normally end up spending more time filming people fall off stuff than actually climbing anything myself! I ended making a video of two probables on our last day as a reply to the constant badgering of James Squire and Ed.

Skip to 2:50 to see his attempt. It is not from the start holds! But it's all I have! That and mine and his word, which should be enough really.

[Will Hunt]

Thanks for posting that Mr Pajamas. Personally I have no interest in this. I really couldn't give a monkeys. However, the people who do won't take kindly to being insulted on the net. It's not necessary.

The issue that the proof seekers will have with your post is that despite the obvious demonstration in the video that the lad is a good climber, there is still no proof of him climbing the problem - that is that a human or camera saw, with their own eyeballs/lens, him climb the problem from the start holds and top out. Anything else is not proof, I'm afraid. I'm not saying I think he did or didn't do it either way, I'm just saying what proof is.

[abarro81]

Indeed. As with Simpson, no-one was ever wondering about ability or potential, only execution

[Climbing in Pajamas]

Personally I felt I was quite contained compared to some of the language I have seen used to describe my friend. Not by anyone on this feed though!. I personally find this tedious, annoying and pointless. It's just a bloody rock! and no real offence was meant!

But that is besides the point! I agree it is not proof but! It is no longer just heresay. It is my word. Obviously none of you have ever met me or probably ellis for that matter. But if there was even the slightest doubt in my mind I wouldn't have gone through the effort to bring up a almost forgotten topic. As far as I'm concerned he climbed the problem(dark matter) and I believe that should be good enough for most. And next time I will film the the absolute balls off it.
 
Here is a picture of the holds I believe Ellis used to start Fat Man after checking the first ascensionist video the original line starts a few holds lower and I'm not sure if what he climbed is or isn't an official climb but the breakage explains why we struggled to determine the start holds! Whatever he did do was still hard enough that I couldn't pull on although might not be worthy of the full grade? But who am I to tell!

... How the hell do you attach an image?

[Mumra]

Ellis Butler Bullshit is a genius moniker, who should I wad?>>>>>

[tomtom]

Ellis Butler Bullshit is a genius moniker, who should I wad?>>>>>

Will

[Climbing in Pajamas]

Ellis Butler Bullshit is a genius moniker, who should I wad?>>>>>

apologies but I don't speak UKB. What are you on about?   

[Mumra]

Maybe grab a dictionary Ellis

[Jim]

As for Dark Matter I can with %100 certainty say he did climb it!

Although I didn't see him climb it

genius

[User deactivated]

Maybe grab a dictionary Ellis

 

[Climbing in Pajamas]

As for Dark Matter I can with %100 certainty say he did climb it!

Although I didn't see him climb it

genius

God damn! I knew I should have never even bothered.

I am %100 sure because I %100 believe he could have done it that morning! If he was going to lie about why not say he did it on one of the tens of times he tried that trip without me and save the 7 days of consistent effort.

But then again none of you actually care you just having nothing better to do on a friday evening(me included).
Should have gone to the pub.

[Mumra]

As for Dark Matter I can with %100 certainty say he did climb it!

Although I didn't see him climb it

genius

God damn! I knew I should have never even bothered.

I am %100 sure because I %100 believe he could have done it that morning! If he was going to lie about why not say he did it on one of the tens of times he tried if that trip without me and save the 7 days of consistent effort.

But then again none of you actually care you just having nothing better to do on a friday evening(me included).
Should have gone to the pub.

Suspension of disbelief is more believable, have you never seen Mouse Trap?

[Climbing in Pajamas]

yeah sure. But I also know him! I also watched him climb every move on the problem at least seven or eight times. Twice from the start to a considerably easier move at the very end!

I will not press my point anymore! Believe me or not he climbed it.

[Jim]

you just having nothing better to do on a friday evening(me included).
Should have gone to the pub.

you brought this on yourself I'm afraid

[Climbing in Pajamas]

you just having nothing better to do on a friday evening(me included).
Should have gone to the pub.

you brought this on yourself I'm afraid

Yeah I know! Anyway! I have said my bit for a friend. Hope you'll get out climbing over the weekend.

[36chambers]

He's still young. He'll most probably climb many harder things, rendering this insignificant. If he wants mass recognition, divorced from doubt, I'm sure he now knows how to achieve it

[rodma]

As I previously said I'd be really interested to see photos of Ellis on fatman, let alone footage of individual moves. Please post them up

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[rodma]

 
Here is a picture of the holds I believe Ellis used to start Fat Man after checking the first ascensionist video the original line starts a few holds lower and I'm not sure if what he climbed is or isn't an official climb but the breakage explains why we struggled to determine the start holds! Whatever he did do was still hard enough that I couldn't pull on although might not be worthy of the full grade? But who am I to tell!

... How the hell do you attach an image?[emoji14]

Please post up some photos of Ellis on it. Or if you have some footage of him which isn't scattered amongst Rocklands goers then post that up too/ instead

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[Paul B]

A personal opinion on all of this is that some of the burden of/for proof should fall with the sponsors and reporting websites.

I'm amazed sponsors aren't more stringent than this (contracts I've seen mention things such as not acting in a way that would be bad for the brand) as it could lead to some very bad press.

I'm less surprised that certain websites seem less than bothered but really they ought to be rather than just re wording blog posts and calling it journalism.

I can see how Fatman could all easily be a misunderstanding, there are an awful lot of poor undercuts in that roof and younger generations who haven't seen it climbed to an eclectic mash of percussion instruments may not fully understand the history there (or know what a VHS is).

[PipeSmoke]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=347961

Here's an 8A he did, turns out to be quite easy after someone repeated it. Not entirely relevant, but surely he'd have a better grasp of grades than that?

Also this:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=358933

Also I am not calling him out , just seems to add to slightly dubious behaviour

[shurt]

I can see how Fatman could all easily be a misunderstanding, there are an awful lot of poor undercuts in that roof and younger generations who haven't seen it climbed to an eclectic mash of percussion instruments may not fully understand the history there (or know what a VHS is).

Love that film...

[Will Hunt]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=347961

Here's an 8A he did, turns out to be quite easy after someone repeated it. Not entirely relevant, but surely he'd have a better grasp of grades than that?

Also this:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=358933

Also I am not calling him out , just seems to add to slightly dubious behaviour

You always have to bear in mind that grading FAs is really really difficult and there's a load more effort involved than just walking up to an established problem, with an established set of holds and beta, and climbing it.
 

[Oldmanmatt]

I can't pm everyone.
- He really can climb.
- He's young.
- There is a backstory.
- At a guess and after talking privately to several that were "around" at the time, he probably did it. I think. Maybe.
- I have not always had the best relationship with him or his ex.
- He really can climb.
- No-one has been willing to swear that he did it (except PJ's above not sure who that is).

I would guess he's probably learnt a lesson? I started out quite sceptical, now 6/10 in favour of "he did it".

Edit

It's also none of my business and I know that. Just feel compelled to comment and look into it because of a loose connection to the lad. He always struck me as the type who might let ego overcome common sense though. I say this as an established Pot to his Kettle.


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[rodma]

This is not the thread about religion. All I want is a photo of him on fatman.

There's talk from pj further up about him maybe doing it from a few moves in, but there only are a few moves on the roof. A photo would really help tell what problem was being attempted. If nothing else

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