[Duma]

I know nothing about the distinction between 8A+ and 8B, but using Shallow Groove (clearly at the top border) in the context of discussing RoM (clearly at the bottom) is a bit of a red herring.

[Duma]

Also has Barrows done Ropes? In which case surely it's just a route in a hole...

[remus]

Dom has done Keen Roof and Luke has done Dead and Bloated and also the FA of Mr Spantastic which he gave 8B.

Cheers Dave, I've added them back in https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_boulders.md

[User deactivated]

I know nothing about the distinction between 8A+ and 8B, but using Shallow Groove (clearly at the top border) in the context of discussing RoM (clearly at the bottom) is a bit of a red herring.

Not really sure why it’s a red herring if they are both given 8B. 95% of those doing ropes have taken or said 8B for the record. But by all means take different problems from my example.

Barrows probably got the FA but was just too nice to tell folk. He’s done a fair few of the 8Bs on the list, stronger than he lets on, doesn’t just go to the crag to bitch like many believe. It’s about a dozen moves to very easy ground for what it’s worth.

I do think it’s interesting. And I reckon 99.99% of the climbers can’t distinguish between the two things.

That’s cause of the messed up grading imo.

8B for me can mean anything from  a couple of hours, to a lifetime project that I’m probably wasting my time on really and that’s even if the style suits me. Just depends who put it up.

[Bradders]

8B for me can mean anything from  a couple of hours, to a lifetime project that I’m probably wasting my time on really and that’s even if the style suits me. Just depends who put it up.

That happens across the grade range though, as there are so many variables at play. I've done 7Cs in a couple of goes but have several others that are currently multi-season projects. Doesn't necessarily mean the grades are wrong.

[abarro81]

 
Routes grades barely make sense, and boulder grades make even less sense. Especially in the UK...

P.s. no I've not done Ropes

P.p.s. I also have that same thing with every grade from 7B+ to 8A!

[Nike Air]

Both Greg Chapman and Ian Vickers have done Anesthesia, 8B at Woodwell.

[remus]

Both Greg Chapman and Ian Vickers have done Anesthesia, 8B at Woodwell.

Isn't that down to 8A+ with the invention of heel hooking?

ed. apologies if it looks like I'm being a bit hypocritical here regarding downgrades, but my impression is that anesthesia was fairly uncontroversial at 8A+? Happy to be corrected.

[Nike Air]

Felt 8B to me and I like to think I can heel hook..

[Duma]

I know nothing about the distinction between 8A+ and 8B, but using Shallow Groove (clearly at the top border) in the context of discussing RoM (clearly at the bottom) is a bit of a red herring.

Not really sure why it’s a red herring if they are both given 8B. 95% of those doing ropes have taken or said 8B for the record. But by all means take different problems from my example.

Barrows probably got the FA but was just too nice to tell folk. He’s done a fair few of the 8Bs on the list, stronger than he lets on, doesn’t just go to the crag to bitch like many believe. It’s about a dozen moves to very easy ground for what it’s worth.

I do think it’s interesting. And I reckon 99.99% of the climbers can’t distinguish between the two things.

That’s cause of the messed up grading imo.

8B for me can mean anything from  a couple of hours, to a lifetime project that I’m probably wasting my time on really and that’s even if the style suits me. Just depends who put it up.

Hey Jack, sorry wasn't meaning to have a go, apologies if it came across like that. I do think saying "they are both given 8B. 95% of those doing ropes have taken or said 8B" is a bit misleading though. SG has had 3 (or 2) ascents in as many decades, lots of the FAs other things have turned out to be really hard, Ryan is notoriously understated, and Aiden said 8B/+. Ropes on the other hand is one of the most ticked 8Bs in the country, and is going in the new guide at 8A+. They are clearly at the opposite ends of the grade, and assuming we all subscribe to a linear grading scale, could be legitimately as different in difficulty as a mid 8A+ and a mid 8B. Keen roof is a better comparison I agree.

Re lifetime project to a couple of hours, I agree with Bradders and think this is noticeable for everyone when near their limit.

[Bradders]

one of the most ticked 8Bs in the country

Another quick thought on this; just because a few people have done something doesn't mean the grade is wrong and should be reduced. I think sometimes popularity gets misconstrued in this way.

[Doylo]

Dem grades are Wide Boyz.

[User deactivated]

Sorry, typed out a long winded reply and got timed out. Will I ever learn haha.

I agree with a lot of what’s been said, number of ascents doesn’t necessarily reflect difficulty etc. Agree with Alex grades on uk boulders make zero sense, especially if you travel around a bit.

Just baffles me is all.

[gme]

They are a lot better than they used to be. 80s/90s the difference from area to area was huge.

Wales was always piss easy though so I guess nothing changes.

[Doylo]

Wales was always piss easy though so I guess nothing changes.

Hope Panton doesn’t check this thread again or there might be some mass downgrading on the way after that one. Like when Vickers and Parry used to come in early 00s and said everything piss..

[User deactivated]

They are a lot better than they used to be. 80s/90s the difference from area to area was huge.

Wales was always piss easy though so I guess nothing changes.

Nothing changes indeed. Still at least it’s not too far for some holiday grades.

[Fiend]

Grades are a complete cluster. Each problem is so different and each person is so different.

next you'll be claiming they're subjective and all.

[Pantontino]

They are a lot better than they used to be. 80s/90s the difference from area to area was huge.

Wales was always piss easy though so I guess nothing changes.

The idea that grades are only inconsistent from area to area is just chest puffing bollocks, and you know it Gav/Jack. Truth is that all areas have inconsistencies within them too. There are definitely hard 8Bs in North Wales - if anybody doubts that then go and try Madame Allure in the Ogwen Valley or Das Pumpenhausen at Porth Ysgo, both very high quality and unrepeated. I dare say you'll be coming back with your tail between your legs, rather than shooting your mouth off about holiday grades.

Or just go and try DC's Wedgie Wall up the Pass, a mere 8A+, which has repelled all comers. Talk to me about holiday grades once you, or anybody, has repeated that.

[gme]

Come on Simon you know I was taking the piss.
Can’t do much over 7B these days. Maybe I need a trip over when you allow visitors to improve on that.

[Pantontino]

Come on Simon you know I was taking the piss.
Can’t do much over 7B these days. Maybe I need a trip over when you allow visitors to improve on that.

Sorry Gav, I shouldn't have bitten. You are more than welcome to come and sample our wares anytime, and get a doss in the spare room!

[User deactivated]

They are a lot better than they used to be. 80s/90s the difference from area to area was huge.

Wales was always piss easy though so I guess nothing changes.

The idea that grades are only inconsistent from area to area is just chest puffing bollocks, and you know it Gav/Jack. Truth is that all areas have inconsistencies within them too. There are definitely hard 8Bs in North Wales - if anybody doubts that then go and try Madame Allure in the Ogwen Valley or Das Pumpenhausen at Porth Ysgo, both very high quality and unrepeated. I dare say you'll be coming back with your tail between your legs, rather than shooting your mouth off about holiday grades.

Or just go and try DC's Wedgie Wall up the Pass, a mere 8A+, which has repelled all comers. Talk to me about holiday grades once you, or anybody, has repeated that.

Sorry if i caused offence Simon. You are right there is definitely hard for the grade stuff too. The jibing was just that, a joke.

I'd love to try MA and Das pumpen, just awkward logistically as i'm sure you know, and i can imagine are still really hard even when you get the right set up pad wise.

All i was saying in earlier points is that stuff like Ropes imo isn't 8B, i wasn't the first to propose this. And it isn't even the easiest i've done at that grade in the hills.

And yeah re Wedgie, Danny breaks all the rules, i reckon that lad could sandbag even the biggest of sandbaggers.

[Orrincoley]

As an example of inconsistencies in the same area - Ropes of Maui "8B" and Dead and Bloated 8B.

They definitely aren't the same. D&B is at least a grade harder. There's a reason it gets significantly less repeats than ropes (and that's not just because it's sharp!)

[monkey boy]

Saying North Wales is full of holiday grades is the same as saying Switzerland is. There are definitely problems that are easy for the grade, but like Simon says there are also problems that are hard for the grade (Paper Birds and Danny's sit to it is another example of this). Every area has easy, bang on and hard problems.

The point I want to make is that most Brits climb indoors or on a board a lot and therefore when we go on rock types that are like indoors (NW, Swiss, Rocklands, even lime to some extent) we climb harder grades faster. It shouldn't be surprising to us and it doesn't mean that it's easy. It just shows your training is working.

Everyone harks on about the grit being difficult but it's just massively conditions dependent and a strange style that most people don't practise on much. If you climb on grit a lot you learn how to move on it, combine that with a (rare) good day and problems don't feel any harder than problems elsewhere.

Regarding Ropes and D&B, I agree that the moves on D&B are a little harder but I would it's sharpness is the main reason it has had less ascents.

[Doylo]

All morphology. Dave finds Paper Birds hard, Jack thinks it’s soft and can lap it but is too short for the one move sit .... Jack thinks Compact and Isles are paths cos he’s tiny but can’t do Malcs, Wedgie ... Someone go and try Neon Handshake for 8a+.. Soft and hard just like anywhere.

[cheque]

Stuperman