[tomtom]

Those little dense beta blocks

Does Dense make them?

Whilst sat on the can watching climbing vids..

[T_B]

Update.

I've been using the Friction Labs chalk for 3 months now. In August when it was hot, I was pretty sceptical and didn't notice much if any difference compared to other chalk, but now I'm pretty convinced about the marginal gains. I've used it only on Lime and a few times on grit in decent conditions. If I was to put a percentage on it, I'd probably say 1% better than others. So not much, but enough for me to buy it again.

[abarro81]

So not much, but enough for me to buy it again.

That was basically my conclusion too

[JackAus]

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/frictionlabs-chalk-lots-of-false-statements-in-their-website-i-would-not-trust-them/111741582

[Footwork]

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/frictionlabs-chalk-lots-of-false-statements-in-their-website-i-would-not-trust-them/111741582

So it turns out you have to pay Frictionlabs to become an ambassador?...   

[andy_e]

Interesting! EDX may not pick up drying agents such as silica gels which may not be evenly distributed throughout a sample. Best run it through XRD to be sure... although I am sceptical that friction is anything other than snake oil for the vertical generation.

[AndyR]

Interesting! EDX may not pick up drying agents such as silica gels which may not be evenly distributed throughout a sample. Best run it through XRD to be sure... although I am sceptical that friction is anything other than snake oil for the vertical generation.

How would XRD pick up silica gel?

[andy_e]

Instead of scanning a small square section in the sample like the SEM does, XRD would analyse a larger sample size wouldn't it?

[petejh]

Fiction Labs..

Is a 'scanning electron microscope (with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy)' a technical name for 'bullshit detector'?

I want one!

[tomtom]

Fiction Labs..

Is a 'scanning electron microscope (with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy)' a technical name for 'bullshit detector'?

I want one!

It probably could be if you had some bull faeces against which to compare samples...

[duncan]

I read the mountain project report and I have still no idea what an EDX, EDK or XDR are. It is cool someone is trying to bring some science to this (and calling them out on the pyramid selling scheme).

[abarro81]

Instead of scanning a small square section in the sample like the SEM does, XRD would analyse a larger sample size wouldn't it?

I presume AndyR may be alluding to the fact that a XRD is used to study crystalline structures (need a periodic nature to the sample) but a quick google says silica gel is amorphous. That said, another quick google makes it look like it does give some signal in XRD.

[andy_e]

Ah, I didn't know that. I've never actually used XRD... I'm pretty sure that XRD picks up Opal-A which is amorphous. XRF would be more likely to give you a full rundown of what's in it?

[masonwoods101]

Im an XRD analyst so could do it but im way to tight to pay for chalk....

[andy_e]

Get some funding off of Moon Dust!

[masonwoods101]

If moon or metolius will pay me i can run an XRF for the quantitative analysis and an XRD for the phase identities... But im sure they wont.... Not that im gonna persue it...

[masonwoods101]

The best point that guy had was along the lines of - you can buy pure Mg carbonate. Why would other companies be refining their own from ores and doing a crap job of it. I think the whole better chalk thing is to do with particle size....

[Mumra]

https://mattfordengineering.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/lab06.pdf

[dave]

I would imagine that Fictionlabs chose what they knew what the shittest chalk on the market (this stuff cut with 20% blackboard chalk, which seems not to be the norm)to test theirs in comparison to justify a lot of the marketing hype. Not exactly unheard of in the world of advertising.

[petejh]

The take-away seems to be that, in theory, the best chalk for moisture absorption is magnesium carbonate and this can be purchased in bulk and baked in your oven at home to eliminate moisture held within the crystals. Hey presto instant Pixie Dust, just add marketing hype.

Anyone done this?

Various sources of MgCo3, 'food grade' and non. Here's one, give Mr Patel a call for a 20Kg bag:
Mr. Abhyuday Patel(Export Manager)
   +91-7405427970
http://www.osianmcpl.com/technical-l.html

Here be Pixies

[AndyR]

Instead of scanning a small square section in the sample like the SEM does, XRD would analyse a larger sample size wouldn't it?

I presume AndyR may be alluding to the fact that a XRD is used to study crystalline structures (need a periodic nature to the sample) but a quick google says silica gel is amorphous. That said, another quick google makes it look like it does give some signal in XRD.

Correct.

If you really wanted to know the composition of your chalk, you'd do an acid digestion and run it through an ICPMS.

Was in Wilson's Eastside a few weeks ago and they said they didn't intend to stock the friction labs product, but ended up stocking it and selling a significant amount due to number of people coming in and requesting it.

A fool and his money...

[remus]

The take-away seems to be that, in theory, the best chalk for moisture absorption is magnesium carbonate and this can be purchased in bulk and baked in your oven at home to eliminate moisture held within the crystals. Hey presto instant Pixie Dust, just add marketing hype.

Anyone done this?

My mum's a lab technician and had a big bag of magnesium carbonate laying around that she filched for me. I didn't do any oven baking.

Texture of the stuff is kind of strange, very finely ground. Other than that I'd be hard pressed to say there's any difference between other chalk's I've used.

[JohnM]

I have been using that friction labs chalk stuff for the past few weeks.  I usually buy Metolius blocks which I have found recently crumble into a very fine talc like substance that almost has a slippery/damp feeling.  I find that the friction labs stuff grips much better onto my fingers and lasts way longer.  I only have to refill my chalk bag once every 2 weeks now whereas before I was going through 2 block of Metolius a week!