[dave]

Since climbing is apparently legit here now, and it's in the new BMC guide, thought probably worth its own conditions thread.

So if you've been here lately, post up.

[turnipturned]

All good on Sunday. (first pocket on DM/Bewild is wet but dries fine)

Thread Nicole is covered in slime but started brushing that and the underside of the roof, kind of knocked back all the nettles on the way in to. The walk in could do with some fallen branches removed and maybe worth replacing the walk out rope........ man that would be tragic if that snapped 

[dave]

That doubled rope to get in-out looked fine to me  - rope like that doesn't really snap unless you're talking big falls over a sharp edge, which we're not. And its already doubled. Much more likely that any of the trees its attached to will give way!

Good effort brushing TN - when dry that's a proper classic, and a real holiday grade giveaway as it seems its given V9 in the new BMC book!

[dave]

All dry last night bar Thread Nicole and a small wet streak at bottom of Badger x3, not impacting on owt.

[T_B]

I'm putting it on record that I'm 99% sure that someone has taken it upon themselves to 'comfortize' the top pocket on Badger, Badger, Badger. They have done this with a file (it looks like) at some point between 16th and 23rd June. I inspected the top of the problem on a rope on the 16th and my immediate reaction when I inspected the top out moves again on Tuesday this week was 'the hold has changed'. Does it matter? There are loads of chipped/glued/improved holds on UK limestone after all. Personally, I think it's a bit of a shame. The crux of the problem is slapping into that pocket and holding the swing. Ultimately, it's now a little bit bigger, making the problem a bit easier. Personally, I didn't think it was that sharp when I looked at it on the 16th and there is a 1% chance that I'm deluded and that it was like that previously. But I don't reckon so, as I spent a fair bit of time brushing the hold on the 16th and you can actually see the file marks from the comfortizing.

The FA and a few other people have repeated the problem without feeling the need to improve the hold. It's a 3-star classic at the magic grade of 8A. Call me a bluff old traditionalist, but it makes me a bit

[Johnny Brown]

I really hope you don't have to be a traditionalist to see that this is plain wrong. Very sad that there are people with this attitude.

[dave]

Copy that.

Some dickhead just turned a standout natural straightup 8a into a chipped and forever tainted 7c+ (downgrade on principle). Well done.

[haydn jones]

i've heard 8A+ for badger x3 from some people so i highly doubt it will be 7C+ but i've never even been to badger cove so really shouldn't be commenting 

[El Mocho]

Pretty shit this. Been falling off this move repeatedly over the last few sessions (I guess both before and after comfortising) and never had issues with flappers etc (just not managing to hold on) I have been down 2 or 3 times between T_Bs abb dates and not seen anyone else there (day time sessions).

I have a very vague memory that the slopey pocket/dish may have had a bit of comfortising prior to the FA although I don't remember who may have told me this and who was said to have done said comfortising (I would be surprised if it was Dan)

I like the automatic down grade, but fuck me it would be hard for 7C+!

[turnipturned]

That is well weird. There ain't a single sharp hold on that problem, it's probably one of the nicest and friendliest 8a on lime. Also for me that wasn't even the hard move, surely the hard move is going to the sloping pocket with LH?

I did it on the 9th June and have been there  one day every weekend since and once on an evening, didn't notice anything but then again wasn't trying badger badger.

[carlisle slapper]

From Memory that pocket was v quartzy and loose originally. The day I found the cove with Ned i climbed BBB the pocket was super sharp and loose as we only had 1 pad and no rope or ladders etc so i climbed it ground up. When i went back to clean it properly and extend it leftwards instead as the top out was a bit loose (its supposed to head left after getting the pocket and finish in the big hollow where thread nicole finishes) Anyway i cleaned the pocket on ab and brushed all the loose quartz  bits out and ragged it with the back of a brush a bit to flick the stubborn quartz chunks out. I can see if a big quartz chunk has come out recently why someone might do that but from memory i got it pretty clean of quartz and back down to the lime.
i did this again recently on a pocket at monreith which had lots of loose quartz particles in and to me i can't think of another way of cleaning a problem properly without doing this other than using glue to hold all the little particles together! personally i'd rather rag an edge with the back of a brush or by twisting my shoe for ages than have it change every session, and i'd rather never use glue where possible.

There's no glue at the crag at all (i've never glued a hold in my life) and all the edges are natural which makes it pretty unique for peak lime.

Personally i reckon its the FA'ists responsibility to leave behind as solider problem as possible and after that people shouldn't be modifying edges on established problems without a very good reason, i hope for their sake a big chunk fell out and made it into a proper finger slicer, in which case i could see the reasons for doing it, if its simply to make it a bigger hold to hit then thats a shame, lots of people do struggle on that move, i think Ben dropped it about 20 times on the swing off that pocket!. Its nice to see the cove becoming a popular venue in spite of this as its a cracking little spot. I always liked the feel of that little church by the parking and deep dale itself.

[T_B]

Thanks for the info Dan. As I said before, it looks as though someone has been at it with a file. In fact, thinking about it, it looked as though a small round file-shaped groove had been created in the bottom left-hand side of the pocket.

Interesting to hear about the leftwards finish. I think the most natural finish now is directly above that pocket, where there are two big pockets. Whether or not you choose to top out depending on your ability to switch from 8A to E4 5c  The rock around the big thread seemed quite loose and quartzy. I pulled off an obvious big edge towards the bottom of it, which you could stretch left for from the pockets. You could get into the thread still, but it feels a bit contrived. I'd be interested to know where others finished.

Anyway, great problem/venue!

[El Mocho]

Cheers for that Dan - think I must have heard about removing sharp bits with a brush, which is obvs completely fine, and after hearing about the current comfortising got a bit over excited!

Still can't understand why it would need any changes now - particularly with a file. The pocket felt fine when I first fell off it 3 or so years ago and felt pretty similar when I fell off it 2 days ago.

I def find that move the crux, have managed to hold the swing once when doing it off a ladder and not really felt that close to holding it when going from the deck. I manage the other crux move pretty much every go... can't think what other beta there might be so it must just be me finding it desperate, maybe it is something to do with being called Ben (and maybe Tom, lets see how he goes)

[Bonjoy]

Just so people don’t get the wrong end of the stick Dan, I take it you mean resin/sika when you say glue, i.e. something external to the rock, as opposed to superglue on porous rock which soaks in?

Sorry to be a pedant, but the crystals you find in limestone are very rarely quartz (crumbliness wouldn’t be a problem if it was). It could be feldspar or galena, but it is most likely to be calcite. Had to get that off my chest!

[T_B]

I def find that move the crux, have managed to hold the swing once when doing it off a ladder and not really felt that close to holding it when going from the deck. I manage the other crux move pretty much every go...

Same here. I can do the first big move pretty much every time now, but haven't tried the top move off a ladder due to 'ladder issues'  .

Just seen Bfree's vid and he sets up for the top move with the pinch for his right. His right foot doesn't come off the spike i.e. no wild swing.

[El Mocho]

Where is the BFree vid? Tried the move using the pinch just higher than the undercut (the same block) and felt it made it fractionally easier, there is also the pinch half way to the pocket...

[T_B]

PMed ya

[turnipturned]

My first attempt off the ladder. I had left hand in the sloping pocket and right hand on crimp. Put my right foot on the spike. Locked to the very top pinch (just below the pocket) then locked a bit more and static to the pocket. Felt fine, however was way harder from the floor as the sloping pocket felt well greasy, so ended launching from the undercut pinch.

Maybe it's a height thing for me for the move to the sloping pocket!

[carlisle slapper]

Feldspar sorry BonJoy, and yes sika rather than superglue/ stabilisers which absorb to be almost invisible, which i am all for when it comes to stopping grit and sandstone from eroding.

Will be interesting to see if the move feels any different. I'm fine with however people top it out really, either way has its pros and cons, if the top is a bit cleaner now it'd make sense to head straight up. Yes the stuff going left had even more feldspar in the pockets. From memory i did a big move out to a two finger pocket, came into something over the lip then do another move down into a good undercling in the hollow and walk my feet round. That big oak makes a fun top out though if you do head up the wall. There is still a decent project to do heading up the pockets right of bewiderness there and moving into Rampant Rabbit. I also started along thread nicole and finished up RR at roughly 7C+/8A or more like 8b route grade, not seen the new guide so don't know what made it in.

 

[dave]

On the subject of the new guide, Thread Nicole seems to have gone in at V9 whatever that means. Surprised me if that's considered 7c, wasn't it 7b originally? Anyone any idea who wrote that section of the guide (I don't have a copy yet)?

[Bonjoy]

Not sure who wrote up Deep Dale, Gary Gibson or Grimer most likely. I have a vague recollection of asking about getting Grimer signed onto Limestone Cowboys so he could crib topos for various crags.

[cofe]

7b+ on the text I have from back then, though I can see how it would be 7b. Great problem.

[dave]

Somewhere I've got some video footage of you and/or me doing that problem, I should probably dig it out to encourage folk to get on it and get it cleaned up.

[turnipturned]

I some how managed to snap the second to last hold  (the pinch/sidepull crimp) off Bewilderness last night, it is the hold before you do the last move to the crimp/mini jug at the top. Pretty gutted as I probably would have done it!! 

Anyway, there is absolutely nothing left of that hold, so I have now found a new sequence, which is a bit harder (but actually climbs a bit nicer) and have now done it in two overlapping sections and got super close from the start just before we left last night. I still have the hold, and it might be possible to glue it back on, however, I am not sure there is any point if it is still possible (it could also make it into one of the hardest straight up boulders in the UK).

Thoughts?

[T_B]

I think you already know the answer?

From Dan above:

There's no glue at the crag at all (i've never glued a hold in my life) and all the edges are natural which makes it pretty unique for peak lime.

[monkey boy]

Some new beta for the top move on Badgers for anyone who is trying it but just to note this is not where it finishes. It finishes up and left in the groove after doing a few moves on pockets.

[abarro81]

Anyone know how much it takes to get BBB wet? Wondering whether to go there 2mo..

[T_B]

I don't reckon it'll be wet

[Mirf]

Walked down there yesterday didn't walk right up to the problems but they looked pretty wet though it had just rained for a good 8 hours solid

[Nike Air]

Any one been here in a while?

[Johnny Brown]

No recent knowledge but I'd be optimistic. Been the driest October I can remember.

[Nike Air]

 

[monkey boy]

Did you go in the end? Interested to hear what it's like.

[william buck]

Anyone been recently?