[petejh]

If you can 'eat what you want' for two weeks and not gain weight, you either have very meagre wants or are very very genetically lucky!

You may have noticed I have a real thing against refined sugars and shit food in general. My diet is good - vpower versus two-stroke, I believe this makes a large difference to how easy it is to manage weight, especially as you age (although Ally S. assures me vpower's a load of bull..)

edit - but... yeah meagre wants - I guess I didn't drink much except 2 bottles of wine in that whole 6 weeks and none at all for the last 4 until a beer last night. I thinkj if I'd been drinking even a beer (refined sugar innit) every other night I'd be at 67-68Kg now.

[Nibile]

Cheers, was especially curious about your fingerboarding progresses, because I think that they could be the least related to creatine, due to the specificity.
Good job on the project!

[petejh]

I have a feeling /have read in various places that fingerboarding progress/finger strength is culmative long term, so my training block in March this year will go towards improving my finger strength for this most recent training block, and so on and on into the long term. Seems a bit counterintuitive - I wonder what the 'half-life' for tendon strength is?!

[Nibile]

I was referring to this actually. Two weeks aren't much, and teamed with some weight loss or better eating regimen and more structured training, it's natural to have sudden gains as you said.
The key factor is to make this adaptive gains become permanent.
The quicker they came, the quicker they'll go.
Don't want to diss your achievements, was just curious. It turned out that you were asking yourself the same questions!
Keep up the good work.

[Three Nine]

I'm pretty anti-sugar too, and I never ever touch alcohol. I guess I eat a ton of fruit which as a lot sugar, but its mainly frozen berries which arent too bad as fruits go (tho I eat a lot of them).

So yesterday I ate.  Man this is embarrassing:

Breakfast:

1 myprotein scoop of oats
1 myprotein scoop of why isolate (sugar free)
2 tablespoons chia seeds
Sprinkling of pumpkin/sunflower seeds


Lunch:

Big can of chickpeas
350g blueberries, frozen. Man im weird, but i fuckin love them

Before training: Protein flapjack with 2g of sugar in it (300cal)
After:  Protein flapjack with 2g of sugar in it (300cal)

Dinner:

Few raw carrots, pack of green beans, pack of broccoli
2x 60p tins of mackerel in brine
500g of mixed frozen berries with some natural yoghurt on

Pre bed:

Scoop of whey

Doesnt seem outrageous to me? Its funny, im heavy as fuck, but im also quite ripped (for me)

[Nibile]

In most houses there's a room which is specifically dedicated to preparing food, to avoid living on canned/frozen/precooked food. This room is called "kitchen". Don't you have one in your house?
 

[Three Nine]

In most houses there's a room which is specifically dedicated to preparing food, to avoid living on canned/frozen/precooked food. This room is called "kitchen". Don't you have one in your house?
 

Me mother's dead and I dont have a girlfriend

[J_duds]

I'm pretty anti-sugar too, and I never ever touch alcohol. I guess I eat a ton of fruit which as a lot sugar, but its mainly frozen berries which arent too bad as fruits go (tho I eat a lot of them).

So yesterday I ate.  Man this is embarrassing:

Breakfast:

1 myprotein scoop of oats
1 myprotein scoop of why isolate (sugar free)
2 tablespoons chia seeds
Sprinkling of pumpkin/sunflower seeds


Lunch:

Big can of chickpeas
350g blueberries, frozen. Man im weird, but i fuckin love them

Before training: Protein flapjack with 2g of sugar in it (300cal)
After:  Protein flapjack with 2g of sugar in it (300cal)

Dinner:

Few raw carrots, pack of green beans, pack of broccoli
2x 60p tins of mackerel in brine
500g of mixed frozen berries with some natural yoghurt on

Pre bed:

Scoop of whey

Doesnt seem outrageous to me? Its funny, im heavy as fuck, but im also quite ripped (for me)

I hope you are climbing 8B now! As that diet seems very oppressive.

[Three Nine]

yeah ive done a few 8Bs now

[cha1n]

Are you a vegetarian 39? If not, probably good to get some lean meet in there as opposed to powdered alternatives.

Do you put anything with those chickpeas? Spices, onions, herbs, etc? Same questions for your veggies? I used to eat a pretty boring diet, so I'm used to boring food but not sure how long I could sustain that sort of diet.

Edit* I'd also have a look into pre/post workout nutrition as they seem off to me.

[Three Nine]

No not veggie, that was just a sample day where I had fish.

Really? I thought protein flapjack, which has oats and whey in it was quite a good thing for before and after 'training' (ie. the period when I went down the wall and pissed around for 1.5hrs)

[cha1n]

I could be wrong but my understanding would be that you should be eating something high in carbs 2-3 hours before training, straight before is not really necessary. Protein and fat will slow down digestion (those flapjacks seem high in both) and ideally you want the stomach quite empty.

During training, I think they recommend something like 50g of carbs/hour.

Post-workout, I'd say something fast digesting, high in carbs, perhaps a little protein within 30 mins. Then a normally balanced meal, reasonably hi gi carbs to absorb faster.

[Three Nine]

Kind of sounds like minutiae to me? Im not short of energy and im only training for bouldering. Im sure there are many good alternatives, but they're very convenient and I bought a load cheap.

[cha1n]

Yeh, I suppose. I'd personally be worrying about consuming 600kcal of flapjack within 2 hours but I put on weight quite quickly.

[webbo]

and I never ever touch alcohol.

No wonder you are such miserable git.

[Lund]

I don't personally see the point in giving a flying fuck about whether it's a large quantity of shit or a large quantity of high quality organic ingredients (Nibile is italian?, so I think healthy means boiling the shit out of vegetables and then frying them... Italian is obvs. the prime cuisine of the planet, fuck that french variations-on-gravy-shit, but the traditional starter-pasta-meat/fish-desert meal is not exactly low in calorific content  ), to a first order it's the quantity of calories that counts.

I was going to comment that I stay svelte through genetics, and that surely there are a lot of calories in 350g of blueberries, but then I realised on reflection that there are only about 200 calories max in 350g of blueberries, and that mostly, my weight stays down through not eating.

Mostly I can't be fucked eating breakfast.  During the week it's a cup of coffee.  Then I hit lunch at 12, proper square meal.  If I go and waste time making my DIP joints sore down the wall, then I'll usually not eat dinner either - maybe a pot noodle and a protein shake (and latterly, some creatine) and a can of stella before bed if I'm lucky.  On non-training days I do eat a second proper meal in the evening, so two squares a day.

I don't know how genetics can play a factor - is one genetically predisposed to absorb less fat in the gut?  Don't start telling me skinny people run a higher metabolism - what, so their body temperature is higher or something?  Or they sit there fidgetting?  Never understood that one.

So basically, I think you do whatever works for you, if you get heavier, eat less.  If you need to gain weight, eat more.  Whatever.  8B = 8B innit. We should all copy 39, although not sure at 36 my DIPs can take 8B.

...

...

Now back on topic... weight gain with creatine.  How does this actually work?  I did a quick google, failed to find any SCIENCE, other than it "drags water in with it".  Er, well, so does glycogen, so does that mean we should stop eating carbs too because if we deplete the carb stores we'll weigh less?  Is it a comparable factor?  Etc.?  How does a different protocol for loading with creatine mean that somehow you don't gain weight yet still get the benefit of larger creatine stores?  Not getting it...

[Nibile]

I am speechless.

[petejh]

Your nation's gelatos are excellent, take heart.

[Lund]

Don't worry, was only kidding, except for the bit about the vegetables.

[Nibile]

Vegtables aside, the old bodybuilders' adage "A calory is a calory", to which you seem to refer, has been proven wrong.
Nutrient partitioning plays a big role in sport nutrition, so different foods have different effects and same foods have different effects depending on when they're consumed.
It was just this.
But now I think that your whole post was a joke and I am confused.

[webbo]

But now I think that your whole post was a joke and I am confused.

Its probably due to eating all those boiled vegetables.

[Lund]

Vegtables aside, the old bodybuilders' adage "A calory is a calory", to which you seem to refer, has been proven wrong.
Nutrient partitioning plays a big role in sport nutrition, so different foods have different effects and same foods have different effects depending on when they're consumed.
It was just this.
But now I think that your whole post was a joke and I am confused.

No, the whole post wasn't a joke.  Only the bit about italian cuisine.  Sorry for the confusion.

I don't disagree that some calories are different from others.  However, I do - strongly - think that there's little point worrying about what type of calories you are taking in BEFORE worrying about how many.  Too many people worry about how healthy their diet is, in terms of processed food etc., whilst ignoring the fact that they simply eat too much.

In order of importance, I would go with

* quantity
* food group balance (protein, fat, carbs)
* supplementation with extra vitamins, creatine?, etc. that you cannot get from your easily available food in the quantities appropriate
* ... whether your food came from a can or not

Are you saying that ordering is wrong?

[abarro81]

Depends on what your goal is. If I'm in training-hard-not-dieting mode I'm basically caring about recovery, so quality of calories counts for more than quantity - I'd rather be eating 3500 calories with loads of good nutrients than 3000 calories of crappyness

[petejh]

What if your goal's to be a fat cunt?

[Nibile]

I'd rather be eating 3500 calories with loads of good nutrients than 3000 calories of crappyness

Who wouldn't?