[Grubes]

So with Longannet announcing they are shutting a couple of months ago. Ferrybridge annoucing yesterday and the "rumours" of same meeting at fiddlers ferry this afternoon. Hinkley C still no receiving EU go ahead and being "temporarly" shelved by EDF having low funds and big debts.
Whats the future holding for the electricity for the UK?

2023 was ear marked in around 2003 as the date the coal stations will close and UK will have a power shortage. These are no closing earlier that expected as they are no longer financially viable due

Its worth bearing in mind Hinkley C will take 10 years to build from go a head and needed to be up and running by 2023.

[lagerstarfish]

are there still plans to install an energy exchange coil in The School Room?

this should provide 60% of the UK's power requirement in 2023

[slackline]

Would be great to see more of this...

Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household


Recent study...

Potential for Worldwide Displacement of Fossil-Fuel Electricity by Nuclear Energy in Three Decades Based on Extrapolation of Regional Deployment Data


News article : The World Could Get Rid of Fossil Fuel Electricity in Just 25 Years with Nuclear Power

Be nice if the reactors were Thorium rather than Plutonium though.

[Oldmanmatt]

I understand, through the grapevine, that Nuclear propulsion in ships, has received a big hit in research funding.
That is, certain people feel that it is not an area with a big future.
It is rumoured amongst my erstwhile colleagues, that certain recent advances in other technologies look set to render most others obsolete far earlier than previously thought.


Shares in Elon Musk anyone?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Grubes]

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

Nice idea not much use in yorkshire 

I understand, through the grapevine, that Nuclear propulsion in ships, has received a big hit in research funding.

With the recent news regarding the alleged vanguard fleet safety issues. This may change?

Potential for Worldwide Displacement of Fossil-Fuel Electricity by Nuclear Energy in Three Decades Based on Extrapolation of Regional Deployment Data
News article : The World Could Get Rid of Fossil Fuel Electricity in Just 25 Years with Nuclear Power

Be nice if the reactors were Thorium rather than Plutonium though.

my personal opinion is nuclear is the way to go. Shame we went with the french design rather than the chinese/korean who seem more efficient at building and a more modern design.

[lagerstarfish]

the idea of a nuclear plant controlled by French electronics?

their cars have loads of electronic gadgetry with a certain reputation

[slackline]

Shares in Elon Musk anyone?

Not sure what you're alluding to, but if its the recently announced Powerwall it still needs to have the energy generated from some other source (as do the Tesla cars).  Obviously its very good to store energy, particularly solar/wind/wave generated in excess when it can't be utilised.

Its been suggested that Powerwall is a toy for rich green people although the authors rejoinder is slightly more balanced.

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

Nice idea not much use in yorkshire 

Not as dissimilar as you might think....

Sunshine in Northern Netherlands

Sunshine (under "sunshine" tab) in Sheffield (North England)

[Duma]

So with Longannet announcing they are shutting a couple of months ago. Ferrybridge annoucing yesterday and the "rumours" of same meeting at fiddlers ferry this afternoon. Hinkley C still no receiving EU go ahead and being "temporarly" shelved by EDF having low funds and big debts.
Whats the future holding for the electricity for the UK?

2023 was ear marked in around 2003 as the date the coal stations will close and UK will have a power shortage. These are no closing earlier that expected as they are no longer financially viable due

Its worth bearing in mind Hinkley C will take 10 years to build from go a head and needed to be up and running by 2023.

I work in the industry so will have to be limited in what I say, but in reply to the title Q: no.

the coalers are shutting because they're uneconomic, they're uneconomic because the electricity market is oversupplied.

will stick some more up later.

[benno]

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

As someone who's behind this stuff, can you explain why this is seen as good idea compared to dedicated PV/concentrator installations? The internet seems to have gone mad for it, but I don't get it. It seems like a terrible idea to install them under roadways where the access, efficiency, cost etc. all have to take a big hit. What are the upsides?

[Bonjoy]

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

As someone who's behind this stuff, can you explain why this is seen as good idea compared to dedicated PV/concentrator installations? The internet seems to have gone mad for it, but I don't get it. It seems like a terrible idea to install them under roadways where the access, efficiency, cost etc. all have to take a big hit. What are the upsides?

It is a duel use of space i.e. it's not taking up space that would otherwise be used to grow food. Personally I think it's another pie in the sky idea which will never happen.

[slackline]

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

As someone who's behind this stuff, can you explain why this is seen as good idea compared to dedicated PV/concentrator installations? The internet seems to have gone mad for it, but I don't get it. It seems like a terrible idea to install them under roadways where the access, efficiency, cost etc. all have to take a big hit. What are the upsides?

I wouldn't describe myself as "behind it" since I've zero involvement and will only have read what you have.

They're not really "under roadways", they are the roadways.

Things that stand out to me ...

• There are a lot of roads/pavements around, they need maintaining, even if made from tarmac, can be a big task compared to replacing a "module" when one is damaged.
• Roads and pavements are continually dug up to access the cables that are underneath, with the this system you can lay cables underneath and make them really easy to access, and not have a fucked up surface when done.
• They're easier to access for repair compared to a roof top PV system.

And the most encouraging thing...

• The pilot appears to have demonstrated to some extent that the efficiency/cost is viable.

EDIT (as I was correcting typos anyway): As with most things....unfortuantely humans are very short-sighted and money makes the world go round for the vast majority  Those with vested interests will try and maintain them for as long as they can in favour of profit over moving towards improving the environment. 

[Duma]

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

As someone who's behind this stuff, can you explain why this is seen as good idea compared to dedicated PV/concentrator installations? The internet seems to have gone mad for it, but I don't get it. It seems like a terrible idea to install them under roadways where the access, efficiency, cost etc. all have to take a big hit. What are the upsides?

You are right, it's expensive nonsense, the dual use is irrelevant until all the better suited surfaces (and there are many) are filled.

[SA Chris]

Personally I think it's another pie in the sky idea which will never happen.

I think airborne pastry production is another idea that has been suggested

[Oldmanmatt]

Shares in Elon Musk anyone?

Not sure what you're alluding to, but if its the recently announced Powerwall it still needs to have the energy generated from some other source (as do the Tesla cars).  Obviously its very good to store energy, particularly solar/wind/wave generated in excess when it can't be utilised.

Its been suggested that Powerwall is a toy for rich green people although the authors rejoinder is slightly more balanced.

Would be great to see more of this...
Dutch solar road makes enough energy to power household

Nice idea not much use in yorkshire 

Not as dissimilar as you might think....

Sunshine in Northern Netherlands

Sunshine (under "sunshine" tab) in Sheffield (North England)

I think that is the point. A lot of renewables aren't available on demand and that's where storage comes in.

Battery tech is coming on leaps and bounds.

The Vanguard thing is an utter crock of pig swill.
Sorry, I'd love to see the back of Trident but the lad is probably ill and his "report" crud. It is all very embarrassing but the lad went awol due to claustrophobia issues (not in the least bit uncommon in the service, it is damn frightening living everyday in a tin can, deep under water).
I cannot stress enough how junior Able seaman is! He barely had clearance to change a toilet roll, in an environment where only two people ever know where the vessel is when at sea, where movement and compartment access is so restricted you cannot walk from one end to the other.
Even SystemaIan (on here) who is Mr Renewables/environment/ consultant to the EU, greener than a rainforest, but like me an ex-RN Marine Engineering Technician (senior. Chief Marine Engineering Artificer) started laughing after reading "the Report".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DaveC]

Somebody earlier mentioned plutonium reactors. Just to point out that plutonium is not employed in power generation, it is a byproduct of fast breeder reactors , is hideously toxic and it is used for only one purpose generally, making things that make a very loud BANG!!! It is a uranium isotope (235? 238? Can't remember which) that powers conventional reactors.

[DaveC]

It is possible that my information is out of date, it is a long time since my old man worked at Calder Hall research lab. About 1966 when he left.

[slackline]

Somebody earlier mentioned plutonium reactors. Just to point out that plutonium is not employed in power generation, it is a byproduct of fast breeder reactors , is hideously toxic and it is used for only one purpose generally, making things that make a very loud BANG!!! It is a uranium isotope (235? 238? Can't remember which) that powers conventional reactors.

  my mistake.  Thorium still seems preferable to Uranium for a number of reasons (but work/research into making such reactors never took off because it doesn't leave the useful by-product of plutonium like uranium reactors do, which was at the time seen as a useful by-product to help with the cold-war).

[Muesli]

I may be imagining things (again) but I thought I caught the end of news item on the radio last week that said on tuesday 12th (or what ever the very sunny day was) the UK hit a new record of 15% power generation by solar (just on that one day mind you).


A quick search has not found any reference to it did any one else hear this item or did I just have a bit too much sun!

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I'd be surprised if it was from solar in the UK, as I don't think we have that much. A new record for wind power was reached but back in January. 31% max, 14% for the whole month.

January was the most productive month ever for wind energy, providing 14% of Britain’s electricity (4.13 terawatt hours)

[Muesli]

Yes it may of been for all combined renewables on that day I only caught the end of the item. I will have a proper search for it tonight.

[Falling Down]

As Matt said, battery technology and particularly the recent developments by Musk/Tesla look very disruptive.

[Duma]

Muesli: last sat (16th) was very windy and sunny. Cashout (what generators get for power if they don't sell it in the market) was  £-62 for a while. Yes that's minus, you had to pay grid to generate. Solar is a huge driver of price swings in the prompt market, as is wind. There's over 5GW of pv capacity now in the UK, not at all trivial.

[Jim]

Great thread and I read with interest, I don't have much to add tho

[tomtom]

Any thoughts on the subsidy issue from the energy experts? Interesting in light of the Guaridans 6tn coal/oil subsidy story - and of course the massive state funded subsidy in Nuclear development (largely for bombs at first..)

[Grubes]

TT its significant but also used an excuse/political tool.
The gas stations have to pay a subsidiary like the coal stations. But the gas stations feed the grid much more than coal due to cheap gas

SSE made 1.56bn which was only small growth from 1.55bn in the previous year. Ferry bridge has been two shifting or base loading for a few years as coal is too expensive to sell to the grid. The green Levy's just make it harder to sell them power off peak

[tomtom]

TT its significant but also used an excuse/political tool.
The gas stations have to pay a subsidiary like the coal stations. But the gas stations feed the grid much more than coal due to cheap gas

SSE made 1.56bn which was only small growth from 1.55bn in the previous year. Ferry bridge has been two shifting or base loading for a few years as coal is too expensive to sell to the grid. The green Levy's just make it harder to sell them power off peak

The Guardian article was interesting as the subsidy included the global health costs from fossil fuel usage..

[slackline]

Making Wind Power work even in low wind locations

More generally...

Global Apollo programme seeks to make clean energy cheaper than coal

[Grubes]

Eggborough has announced its shutting next next year a few of our services team have been told they are not needed any more on the back of it.

In other news  "shockingly" Hinkley C is not going to start in 2023 ... no shit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34149392
It needs 10 years to build from go ahead. The build is still being contested in EU courts.

[tregiffian]

Carbon capture should be the way ahead.

[lagerstarfish]

I thought the whole point of paying a French company to build our nuclear plants was that they'd be able to grease past any European objections - or at least ignore them with an arrogant and very stylish shrug - and build anyway

[tomtom]

I think the French decided non after sampling UK lunch policy - and it's now with Chinese contractors?

[SA Chris]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-34151702

Loosely related, but the demolition of the chimneys will be worth seeing!

[Grubes]

french are still building it as the approved design is the same as flamenville in france.
EDF design with a Areva reactor (french with french).
EDF owe the french government a shit load of money and are struggling. the huge profits they are making off of the existing Nuclear fleet does not seem enough. They are looking to China for outside investment.

The EU oppositions last I heard were from Austria who feel they should get some of the €300m of EU being invested in this for projects in Austria.

It is looking like Anglesey or the lakes could end up with the first of the new nuclear fleet of reactors as they already have funding in place (GE/Hitachi) however they are miles behind in the design phase.

[Grubes]

Carbon capture should be the way ahead.

Drax has EU funding for the scheme to build a pipe line from selby to pump CO2 into the ocean floor. It will be interesting to see how that works as many in the industry are sckeptical and thinks it will make coal/gas less viable.

At the moment gas is the cheapest form of power after nuclear but still relatively dirty compared with wind (if you can compare the two).

Peterhead are also looking at this.

[a dense loner]

Mates replacing one of the flare stacks at Peterhead as we speak. Aside from that nuclear must go to the lakes! Can't see it on Anglesey 

[tomtom]

Yeah - UK's got a lot of carbon capture potential - thanks to the swiss cheese (and associated plumbing) under the North Sea..

What the Govt is going to do with domestic Solar power seems bonkers to me at the moment..

[andy_e]

Unfortunately, the number of wells drilled is one of the biggest unknowns in CCS as all those wells drilled provide potential leak points for CO2!

[Grubes]

Mates replacing one of the flare stacks at Peterhead as we speak. Aside from that nuclear must go to the lakes! Can't see it on Anglesey 

Extension to wylfa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wylfa_Nuclear_Power_Station) which is already there.

[a dense loner]

Sorry crossed wires, thought you meant a new nuclear plant, as in not an extension. I meant the lakes could have another new one comfortably but Anglesey might not be too impressed about another. Tho it looks a bit bigger than I thought from that link! Not that anyone near it would be impressed!

[petejh]

They'd be impressed with the opportunity of a well-paying job that doesn't involve heroin or ecstasy

[galpinos]

They'd be impressed with the opportunity of a well-paying job that doesn't involve heroin or ecstasy

Exactly....

[galpinos]

french are still building it as the approved design is the same as flamenville in france.

As Flamenville is going so well, why wouldn't you use it as a base....

[Grubes]