[SA Chris]

As JB pointed out, Reardon drowned after being swept out to sea, not actually climbing.

[slackline]

As JB pointed out, Reardon drowned after being swept out to sea, not actually climbing.

He wasn't out for an evening stroll though...

He finished the two climbs and was waiting, on an algae-covered platform, for the big swells to pass by so that he could walk back over to me on the opposite side of the inlet. A rouge wave came into the inlet and curved rightwards as it crashed into Mike. He tried to stabilize himself on the platform but the water was too powerful and sucked him in. The current pulled Mike out 150-plus meters in mere seconds.

[Stubbs]

I find the 'inevitability' stuff a bit odd for climbers.... we all roll the dice...we also don't say this as much with high altitude alpinists (when on risks per climb the odds are arguably stacked higher).

I think if we all roll the dice mine (bouldering) are slightly more weighted in my favour than those who choose to pursue proximity wing suit flying!

Not sure how fatalities in alpinism would compare with wing suit flying when compared with the numbers of participants.

[tim palmer]

I hope its Ok to say that or we might as well all give up anything risky and just watch TV and likely die of a heart attack instead. Dean was one of a few climbers I've met who just seemed to be thinking and operating at a different level and he packed more in to a shortened life than most climbers would in several. I find the 'inevitability' stuff a bit odd for climbers.... we all roll the dice...we also don't say this as much with high altitude alpinists (when on risks per climb the odds are arguably stacked higher).

I think the inevitability comes into it due to the escalation in high risk behaviour from climbing to alpinism, from this to soloing, to BASE jumping/free BASE, to wing suiting.

It reminds me of shane mcconkey who was a great freestyle skier, who got into BASE jumping, then ski-BASE jumping, then wing suiting then finally ski-BASE jumping/wing suiting.

It isn't rolling the dice, as much as russian roulette with an increasing number of bullets.

I totally agree people should do what they want, but it is just a shame it leaves a lot of loved ones behind

[SA Chris]

As JB pointed out, Reardon drowned after being swept out to sea, not actually climbing.

He wasn't out for an evening stroll though...

He finished the two climbs and was waiting, on an algae-covered platform, for the big swells to pass by so that he could walk back over to me on the opposite side of the inlet. A rouge wave came into the inlet and curved rightwards as it crashed into Mike. He tried to stabilize himself on the platform but the water was too powerful and sucked him in. The current pulled Mike out 150-plus meters in mere seconds.

No but it was a wave that got him. A rouge (sic) wave can as easily get someone fishing, or taking photos or collecting shells.

[slackline]

No but it was a wave that got him. A rouge (sic) wave can as easily get someone fishing, or taking photos or collecting shells.

Don't know about yourself (beyond your sea-level traverse project, hope thats going well) but when I abseil down sea-cliffs, particularly when the waves are rolling, unlike someone soloing I attach myself with a multi-directional belay to ensure that rogue waves don't wash me out to sea.  Its an objective danger that can be mitigated by using ropes and not possible when you are on your own soloing.

[mrjonathanr]

Kept rolling the dice, but what a life.

Condolences to is nearest friends and his family,

Well put Shark.

[Oldmanmatt]

I can't think of a better place to hold this discussion, or a better time.

I was once somewhat over-committed Trimix diver (hindsight talking).
Doing daft things like hunting out the U533 and diving it, in stupidly deep water (143mtrs) in Iranian waters.

But, the imminent birth of my first child, and a near death boat explosion; frankly, brought me to my senses.

In truth though, I'd started to have doubts a few months before.

One of my diving Buddies, John Bennet, had recently broken the world record for SCUBA at 300 meters.
We'd dived the Energy and Determination wreck together shortly after.
Got drunk in Dubai.
He went back to Puerto Gallera (Philippines).

Then he was dead.

Just gone.

On a 45 Mtr dive.

And we'll never know why or how and he's never been found.

Scared me shitless.

Because I had basically rationalised away all the doubts.

Those dives took days of planning. We trained drills constantly, to the point where we thought we could control anything.
And surviving the near misses, just reinforced that sensation. Somehow, you delude yourself that you survived because you were good, not because you were lucky.

But you are not that good.

You could slip off a cliff tomorrow, walking the dog.
You could catch a Stingray spine in just the wrong place.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bigtuboflard]

You're experience sounds not too dissimilar to how Jimmy Jewel went Matt. His soloing made a big impression on me when young.

Condolences to family and all who knew Dean Potter, a life well lived by the sound of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[andyd]

What a legend. Gutted he's gone. Loved everything he did. Read about him, watched films about him. Always thought that I'd live like he did if I had nothing to lose. Death is inevitable. The way you go isn't.There's no point hiding at home waiting to pass away in an arm chair. Really sorry for him and the people that loved him. 

[galpinos]

He always seemd a larger than life character, the kind that make the climbing scene what it is. I always had a respect/awe for/of him that came from sort of wanting to be able to be that free whilst knowing I'd never want to live like that.

Those dives took days of planning. We trained drills constantly, to the point where we thought we could control anything.
And surviving the near misses, just reinforced that sensation. Somehow, you delude yourself that you survived because you were good, not because you were lucky.

This confirmation bias and false positives are exactly what are being talked about by skiers wrt avalanches.

[Nibile]

Death is inevitable. The way you go isn't.There's no point hiding at home waiting to pass away in an arm chair.

Andy, no offense really, but this is absolute BS.
No one's talking about hiding at home for fear of living. The thing here is putting one's life in serious and constant danger, with the impossibility of controlling all the objective factors involved, that could cause a tragedy.

[Bonjoy]

Death is inevitable. The way you go isn't.There's no point hiding at home waiting to pass away in an arm chair.

Andy, no offense really, but this is absolute BS.
No one's talking about hiding at home for fear of living. The thing here is putting one's life in serious and constant danger, with the impossibility of controlling all the objective factors involved, that could cause a tragedy.

It might be a flippant way to put it but it is not BS. There are innumerable things which could cause your death at random points throughout your life, one of which gets you in the end. Life IS Russian roulette, you don’t get a choice about that. I think risk taking is in part a drive to feel in brief control of this awful feeling of waiting for terrible shit to happen. Ultimately life belongs to the individual to do with as they wish. Choosing quality over quantity is valid. The argument about impact on others is a separate one and hinges to some extent on honesty and choice. Spouses should have walked into the situation with their eyes open if the relationship is honest. Parents we don’t get a choice about having and we should not fundamentally dumb down our lives on their behalf. Children are a much trickier issue as they don’t get a choice, but if the alternative to having a risk taking parent is having a seriously depressed one then it isn’t a simple question.

[Nibile]

It's an oversimplified cliché.
Between hiding at home and flying through rocky canyons or high-line slacklining solo, there's a vast field for alternatives.
I don't express any opinion on what Potter was doing here, I only want to point out that the alternative to his way of living is not just hiding at home waiting for the end.
Just this.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I think there is an interesting difference in activities that appear to be risky from participants or observers points of view and activities that are truly high risk (of serious injury or death) like BASE jumping or cave diving, where there is close to zero chance of survival in the event of even the smallest malfunction/mistake.

Climbing in most forms (excluding Mountaineering) appears to be high risk to many observers but as we know even soloing seems to be statistically low risk (for deaths) compared to many other activities. I remember reading that rugby and horse riding are two of the highest risk sports for serious spinal injury or death.

Another example is working for the fire service would appear to many observers to be high risk however the chances of dying in service is very low, due to modern equipment and strict methods of working. Risk assessments and Health and Safety do have it's benefits.

Another interesting point is before the earthquake in Nepal, climbing Everest was very high risk with I've read as many as 1 in 10 not coming back alive. I think this risk had dropped with the commercialisation of the big teams but I image it still remains high. Despite this many people were attracted to it, plenty of which who would not be classed as your typical 'adrenaline junky' types despite the risk be up there with some of the more typical 'extreme' dangerous sports.

[andyd]

It's an oversimplified cliché.
Between hiding at home and flying through rocky canyons or high-line slacklining solo, there's a vast field for alternatives.
I don't express any opinion on what Potter was doing here, I only want to point out that the alternative to his way of living is not just hiding at home waiting for the end.
Just this.

It's a sliding scale of opinion upon which you disagree with me. Whether or not we agree, it's far from the BS you suggest. People are far too quick to jump on the offensive here. If I thought I was going to die climbing I wouldn't do it. I would like to think that Mr P thought thought the same.
Anyway, can we keep this as a tribute page? I wouldn't like to think that one comment made has led to an argument.
(Edit:spelling!)

[Nibile]

Andy I didn't want to sound offensive. I could have expressed my opinion in a more articulated way, but forgive me, I didn't. Nothing personal of course.
+1 about keeping the tribute page clean.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/the_artist

RIP Dean.

[slackline]

I remember reading that rugby and horse riding are two of the highest risk sports for serious spinal injury or death.

Micromorts

Small but Lethal by David Speigelhalter* and Mike Pearson


* Winton Professor of the Public Understanding of Risk at the University of Cambridge

[Offwidth]

I get what Andy is saying but I think it's in hindsight that we see it coming. Plenty of cutting edge climbers on high risk ventures are in that category, Andy included; they are all arguably artists (some more so than others). Reading one famous autobiography I was amazed a certain climber made it to adulthood, let alone survived his major climbing exploits.

It may well be that extreme risk takers should take pause at times but in the end risk in climbing is a continuum that can be hard to judge logically and all climbing fundamentally involves risk. "Where the Mountain Casts its Shadow" by Maria Coffey and "On the Ridge Between life and Death" by David Roberts are thoughtful works on the subject I would recommend highly.

[slackline]

"Where the Mountain Casts its Shadow" by Maria Coffey and "On the Ridge Between life and Death" by David Roberts are thoughtful works on the subject I would recommend highly.

Julian Lines Tears of the Dawn is also a great insight into the mind and motivation of a soloist.

A recent interview with him is shorter and free.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I think there is an interesting difference in activities that appear to be  risky ...
and activities that are truly high risk (of serious injury or death) like BASE jumping or cave diving, where there is close to zero chance of survival in the event of even the smallest malfunction/mistake.

And perhaps, therein lies the illusion.

From the right balance point, the line, the one inch webbing highline, will be a yard wide.

And that is closer to the truth, and what draws us back again and again.

Not avoiding death, or death defying for the rush. Choosing not to avoid it, and being closer to something else.

R.I.P.

[slackline]

[hstmoore]

I think the distinction between risk and consequence is a useful one to make (I was told that Alex Honnold talks about this)

The risk is the chance of the consequence coming in to effect.

The consequence is just that - the consequence of the action if it goes wrong.

E.g Driving a car on a motorway the consequence of crashing at 70mph is terrible. However, the risk of crashing is fairly low. Ergo lots of people do it lots of the time, because the risk is so low even in consideration of the terrible consequences.

Bouldering - the consequences of falling off are often minimal. The risk of falling off is often very high.

Soloing a 50m V diff - the consequences are terrible, but the risk to a competent climber may well be minimal. cf. driving on the motorway.

I often like to tell myself that the most dangerous part of a soloing session is driving to the crag.

[Sasquatch]

I think the distinction between risk and consequence is a useful one to make (I was told that Alex Honnold talks about this)

The risk is the chance of the consequence coming in to effect.

The consequence is just that - the consequence of the action if it goes wrong.

E.g Driving a car on a motorway the consequence of crashing at 70mph is terrible. However, the risk of crashing is fairly low. Ergo lots of people do it lots of the time, because the risk is so low even in consideration of the terrible consequences.

Bouldering - the consequences of falling off are often minimal. The risk of falling off is often very high.

Soloing a 50m V diff - the consequences are terrible, but the risk to a competent climber may well be minimal. cf. driving on the motorway.

I often like to tell myself that the most dangerous part of a soloing session is driving to the crag.

You've got risk a touch off.  liklihood is the chance of a consequence coming int effect.  Risk is the combination of the likelihood and consequence. 

So in your example, driving on the motor way is low risk because of low likelihood of an accident happening.  Bouldering is high likelihood of falling, but low consequence, hence, low risk. 

Soloing risk is going to be relative to the competency of the climber and the difficulty of what they're soloing. 

As a parent and someone who would like to live a very long time, I have fairly strict lines about tolerence for the "dying" part.  Injury, sure.  which is why I don't mind highballing.  death-no.  so no soloing a 50M v diff.  Others draw their own lines for their own reasons.