[crimp]

I have always been happy with my old sprung sticht plate, and more recently my DMM bug for belaying, and have held many airborne passengers perfectly happily.

I am looking around for a locking device for my 15 year old daughter to use with me, as there is a bit of a weight differential.

After checking out the scuttlebuck on the interweb, i am reckoning either-

grigri - but stories of people getting cratered

CT click up - chap at shop rates it, not cheap

edelrid mega Jul - cheapest, no moving parts, single or double rope.

I am leaning towards the Jul. But as I've never used one of these new fangled, blasphemous, locking playthings, i was wondering if you can share any experiences, thoughts, and recommendations.

Cheers

[Wipey Why]

grigri - but stories of people getting cratered

Personally, I think this tends to be a consequence of poor belaying rather than the device itself.

Any belay device has scope for dropping people, but the widespread use of the gri gri means that you hear about it more.

Whatever you get I would recommend making sure your daughter is taught how to use it properly and that it is made very clear to her that it is not a failsafe device.

[Oldmanmatt]

I had one of those sprung plates. It was the first bit of gear I ever bought, as a young teenager (13?).
When I went to Regester at The Quay, the young lass that checked my rope work, didn't know what it was. I also realised, it was fifteen years older than she was.

I use a Grigri 2 now for single rope stuff. Love it, though it takes a bit of practice to feed rope to a leader without locking it...

[crimp]

She has used a grigri several times indoors. And they do seem to be on most peoples racks these days.

The mega Jul feels more like a proper belay plate though.

Personally, i would rather she learnt the traditional way and relied on paying proper attention, quick action, and sound ropework. It's only our size difference that the assisted braking will make us both feel more confident, and hence have better days out.

[Muenchener]

grigri - but stories of people getting cratered

... largely put about by hysterical traddy luddites on the other channel & the American forums. Whereas serious sport climbers, as far as I can see, pretty much universally use them. There are a couple of ways to make a grigri go wrong, which are very easily avoided by a simple process of 

The main problem *was* that a grigri can lock up when giving out rope for a clip with old/stiff/crappy ropes. People used to use the release lever in this situation, and if the climber then falls, the belayer's reflex is to pull back harder on the release lever.  Game Over.

If you use the method now recommended by Petzl, depressing the cam with the thumb of the brake hand, there is no problem.

CT click up

One of my regular climbing partners has one and likes it. I've never used it. It seems to be prone to locking up quite hard when I want to take rope quickly for a clip, and then seems to be more faff to release than a grigri.

[cheque]

...more like a proper belay plate though.

A GriGri is a proper belay plate. It's been accepted as such since the mid-90s. The only reason to think otherwise is being out of touch, willfully or otherwise.

Personally, i would rather she learnt the traditional way and relied on paying proper attention, quick action, and sound ropework.

All of these are required to belay properly with a locking device as well. People thinking that they're not are the ones that have accidents, same as with a non-locking device. Just teach her to use both. Fuck, teach her to belay with the rope wrapped round her back too if you really want her to learn the traditional way. 

[crimp]

 

i am being a bit willfully mischievous, overplaying the old fashioned bit.

But i have never bought one before and always a good idea to get peoples opinion.  When people in shop say they prefer x over y, i always wonder if they mean they get a better mark up on x.

People seem to be leaning toward the grigri.

Is that consensus?

[chris j]

Grigri2 is fine for me, unless you are trying to belay with an old rope as stiff as a wire hawser... Even then the depress with the thumb and yard the rope through with the other hand method as recommended by Petzl is ok.

My missus is gradually becoming convinced to use one instead of the ATC. Nothing wrong with the ATC of course, but it makes my mind easier as there's quite a weight difference between us so she gets pulled off her feet and I always worry she might let go of the rope (not happened yet of course).

[moose]

I've never had any real trouble at either end of a grigri - and until recently both myself and my usual belayer were ATC wielding tradsters.  The main problem is more accidental locking-up when you quickly need to pay out - and that's often more a rope problem than a device problem. 

I suspect some of the people contributing to the UKC threads on the subject have maybe used a grigri once, not developed the knack, and been dead set against them ever since.  I always get the feeling that the people making the most noise do almost no sport climbing - or at least very little RPing.  I got over any of my misgivings about locking plates the first time I had to belay someone for hours whilst they worked a route for the first time - having to haul someone heavy bolt-to-bolt with an ATC is not nice.  There often seems to be an edge of smug ethical purity about the discussions of locking devices too.

[Wipey Why]

I got over any of my misgivings about locking plates the first time I had to belay someone for hours whilst they worked a route for the first time - having to haul someone heavy bolt-to-bolt with an ATC is not nice

[tomtom]

I used a GriGri for the first time in Boulder a couple of weeks ago (I rarely touch ropes - euch!) and had no problems at all with it. I even (without any instruction) figured out the push on the flange with your thumb to help pay out rope routine (which I assume you're all talking about above). I was careful the first few times lowering folk - but it all seemed fine and perfectly controllable..

As (sorry forgotten) someone up in the thread said - they are the most popular of that type of device, so bound to have had more scrutiny/been used wrongly etc...

[krymson]

If you buy a Mammut smart with the mammut smart belay carabiner(it has a anti-cross loading plastic doohickey), it's an absolutely great device. The single rope version is very light small and neat looking, your daughter will probably like it.

It's dead simple --has no moving parts, it's one of the cheaper autolockers out there, and it's excellent for lead belaying.

The 2 caveats about it are that if you use the wrong belay carabiner(i.e. pretty much any biner besides the one sold by mammut) it can be a cross-loading nightmare.
also, lowering with it isn't as intuitive as with a grigri2, but once you get the hang of it(push out, not up), it can be really smooth.

[crimp]

If you buy a Mammut smart with the mammut smart belay carabiner(it has a anti-cross loading plastic doohickey), it's an absolutely great device. The single rope version is very light small and neat looking, your daughter will probably like it.

It's dead simple --has no moving parts, it's one of the cheaper autolockers out there, and it's excellent for lead belaying.

The 2 caveats about it are that if you use the wrong belay carabiner(i.e. pretty much any biner besides the one sold by mammut) it can be a cross-loading nightmare.
also, lowering with it isn't as intuitive as with a grigri2, but once you get the hang of it(push out, not up), it can be really smooth.

wasn't even aware of that one.

It's certainly got price, weight, and good looks on it's side. Plus a very positive write up on needlesports.

Anyone else use one of these?

[crimp]

Right.

Here's where i am.

I was sort of deciding on a grigri2 because that was what everyone was showing the love for, and i trust you guys 

But now krymson has piqued my interest in the mammut smart gadget.

I would like to hear anyone else's experience of those.

Like i said, the main purpose for an autolock device is not for working routes, but to be a confidence booster for me and my daughter. Given our weight, age, experience differential, if i should take shall we say an unexpected rest on the rope, i go down and she goes up, her natural reaction may be to let go of the rope. I know no devices are infallible, and i don't intend taking unexpected rests.

Which is best?

Final thoughts?

[mrjonathanr]

Is that consensus?

Not quite: I have a Grigri but prefer to use the:Trango Cinch.
A bit more finicky when lowering, but 100 times better when paying out than the Grigri.

I would have thought she should go into a shop, have a go, then decide.

[slackline]