[Davo]

Was thinking about this and why people suggest different grades - I think it's just really short, bouldery, maybe a bit morpho and therefore very easy to make a mistake that you can't correct. So you could end up having multiple attempts and convince yourself it's tricky when in fact you're only a marginally different hand / foot / body position away from doing it? You're not weak!
[/quote]

Need to have another go at it and see if I was just having a bad day...

[BenF]

...I hear Nude Motorcycle Girl at Runcorn is three star and really 7b so might provide an alternative in some weather conditions (I know it's not Wales but for some in the NE it may be as quick to get to as Pen Trwyn)

Not sure you mean Nude Motorcycle Girl.  I haven't done it so may be wrong but its given 7a (although yeah it could well be harder) and the real classic 3 star 7b is to the left - Topless Skateboarding Nun.  A very good climb indeed.

[Luke Owens]

A lot of people recommended White Hopes on the Orme on this thread awhile back. Just wondering if anyones got any beta for the top section which felt way harder than 7b...

From the finger jug by the 3rd bolt I was trying to go right hand up to another decent incut edge then high feet and a big move to a left hand really poor incut sidepull/crimp about a foot below the crack then I was completely stuck. Is this right? Do you go directly up from the finger jug to the crack? Also the crack itself has soul destroyingly poor holds.

The new guide shows the line further right of the crack?

I must admit I didn't think the route was as good as a lot of people make out, it has some pretty cool moves but I've definitely done better less stared routes. I was on Mudjeekewis last weekend and it seemed easier and a better route? That only gets a star with White Hopes getting 3.

Any beta would be much appreciated, I'm probably just being a punter.

Cheers

[andy popp]

Pretty certain I used the crack.

[BenF]

Me too... I went straight up into the crack at the top, yarded up that and then used some reasonable holds to swing rightwards to the chain.

For what it's worth, I thought White Hopes was a really good route with contrasting sections. And easier than Mudjeekewis. And probably of the same quality, star wise.

As for beta, sorry I can't remember much except that I fell off it first go, as I was moving into the crack and that I found that was the hardest move. Bit powerful and with some smaller than expected holds.

[Luke Owens]

Cheers guys, that way seemed the right way to me but just getting into the crack seemed really hard/impossible, I'm probably missing something. That being said I only had two pretty quick goes dogging up it.

[andy popp]

Sorry I can't help any more, I can't remember any of the moves at all, but I hoped it would be worth knowing you were on the right line. I thought it was brilliant too, I do remember that.

[Luke Owens]

Sorry I can't help any more, I can't remember any of the moves at all, but I hoped it would be worth knowing you were on the right line. I thought it was brilliant too, I do remember that.

No worries pal, knowing I was atleast in the right place is enough. This route doesn't seem to get done that much given it's classic status. Probably because it's round the back. Good spot though, did Homo Sapien last year and thought that was one of the best I've done on the orme.