[DAVETHOMAS90]

Anyone else been up over Derwent recently?

I was up there yesterday for a walk with a friend, and was appalled by "developments" to the path, which now resembles a yellow brick road.

I'm sure this will "blend in" over time, but it has been bulldozed through, with boulders ripped up and/or smashed in many places.

I really felt robbed of much of what appeals to me, of a walk over Derwent. One of my favourite runs is the classic Derwent loop, which descends along the top, from Back Tor to the Moscar sign, via Derwent Edge and Coach and Horses etc. The last bit always being a bit of a challenge when you're tired - but this has been flattened and ruined.

Part of the appeal to me of "wild places" is the inherent lack of convenience, the way we are forced to interact more with the environment, and lose ourselves, rather than trying to bend it to our will.

I felt disgusted. The photos don't do it justice really.

Dave T.

[a dense loner]

I think that looks pretty good to be honest

[slackline]

Didn't reach as far as the Coach and Horses when I went up there some time before xmas, I think it petered out around the cross roads of tracks.

Looked a horrible mess then and far far worse now its been extended.  Real shame, no doubt done in the name of "safe access" or such like.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I think that looks pretty good to be honest

Best/worst seen up close, in the context of what has been lost Dense. In time, I'm sure people will forget what was there before. There was no really bad erosion, probably because of the rocky terrain. This has been destroyed.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Didn't reach as far as the Coach and Horses when I went up there some time before xmas, I think it petered out around the cross roads of tracks.

Looked a horrible mess then and far far worse now its been extended.  Real shame, no doubt done in the name of "safe access" or such like.

Quite. And so unnecessary. I feel worried about "management" of other areas too, e.g. Stanage.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I think that looks pretty good to be honest

And, of course, others will consider it an improvement. But in many ways, something has already been lost, when we over-manage the land, and utilitise it.

[SA Chris]

What scares me is it may now be seen as fair game for "green laners"?

[lagerstarfish]

the high concentration of yellow-brick-roaders will act as a deterent for green-laners

[SA Chris]

Click your heels lagers.

[Snoops]

Anyone else been up over Derwent recently?

I was up there yesterday for a walk with a friend, and was appalled by "developments" to the path, which now resembles a yellow brick road.

I'm sure this will "blend in" over time, but it has been bulldozed through, with boulders ripped up and/or smashed in many places.

I really felt robbed of much of what appeals to me, of a walk over Derwent. One of my favourite runs is the classic Derwent loop, which descends along the top, from Back Tor to the Moscar sign, via Derwent Edge and Coach and Horses etc. The last bit always being a bit of a challenge when you're tired - but this has been flattened and ruined.

Part of the appeal to me of "wild places" is the inherent lack of convenience, the way we are forced to interact more with the environment, and lose ourselves, rather than trying to bend it to our will.

I felt disgusted. The photos don't do it justice really.

Dave T.







Its pretty fucking awful

[bigtuboflard]

I wonder what consultation was done on this before the contractors got stuck in? It's been a regular occurence in the peak with the sanitising of rights of such as Stanage causeway, Rushup Edge, the track down to Stoney and now this.

Agree Dave that it will blend a bit in time but the materials used appear to be completely out of keeping with the local substrate. It will also without fail encourage more mountain bikers to head up there. It also ruins as you say one of the nicest sections of trail running about. 

[lagerstarfish]

yes, but it's opened up the area to wheelchair bound trail runners

[bigtuboflard]

excuse my narrow mindedness  Hopefully we might even see a few strollers and double width buggies up there soon.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Its pretty fucking awful

[/quote]

 

That about sums it up.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I wonder what consultation was done on this before the contractors got stuck in? It's been a regular occurence in the peak with the sanitising of rights of such as Stanage causeway, Rushup Edge, the track down to Stoney and now this.

..the materials used appear to be completely out of keeping with the local substrate. It will also without fail encourage more mountain bikers to head up there. It also ruins as you say one of the nicest sections of trail running about. 

 

I wounder if we can encourage closer collaboration and consultation? I appreciate we're very much a minority group still, but together with the fell running community, I'm sure we'd be able to find a way to influence decision making to some degree. Excuse my naivety and relative ignorance.

[Johnny Brown]

Looks like crushed gritstone aggregate to me, so as appropriate as is available. It'll weather in eventually.

I'll make some enquiries on the consultation side. The last erosion control on this path was done with slabs wasn't it?

[slackline]

If I remember correctly there are sections with slabs further along as you get towards Back Tor.

[tomtom]

Hmm...

whats the point of this. Is there an official reason/memo/letter/announcement? Is this reason based in any sort of sensible research or conjured up from the imagination of an official?

MrsTT's brother has to get about in a powered wheelchair, so I can see how tracks like this can expand the amenity value to a wider group of people.. Its the kind of thing he'd be quite happy zooming up. But its fuck ugly - and surely significantly reduces its value overall? Also, I doubt this would be good enough for many powered chairs - it looks too rough and those rock steps would be a no-no (it hasn't even eroded yet either..) - so I'm left wondering what the point actually is.. who is this for?

Wheres the espresso van? (thats a joke btw)...

[twoshoes]

Looks like crushed gritstone aggregate to me, so as appropriate as is available. It'll weather in eventually.

I'll make some enquiries on the consultation side. The last erosion control on this path was done with slabs wasn't it?

If you do, maybe you could get in touch with John Horscroft or various people in Ride Sheffield/PeakMTB (I don't know how to link, sorry.) Heavy handed path maintenance is going on all over the Peak and they've been trying to get Derbyshire CC and various other land managers to engage with users and consider various options before plowing big motorways across the countryside.

[cofe]

Looks like it should be visible from space.

I'll make some enquiries on the consultation side. The last erosion control on this path was done with slabs wasn't it?

Slabs further north, towards Back Tor.

Would consultation have been a requirement here? As I understand it, the path is not a Public Right of Way, and it's on private land (albeit land that falls under CRoW).

More info here. Also note the specific mention of consultation requirement in regard to the Cutthroat BW. And not great news that DCC will be involved in this BW resurfacing work.

As an aside, similar 'yellow brick road' work was done on Cut Gate (a RoW) in about 2008-ish, and it's weathered in OK up there. Although it wasn't anything like as extensive as this (2.5km!), and I imagine Cut Gate gets far less traffic so there were fewer eyes to offend.

Be interested to know more about the background.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

For anyone who hasn't been up there yet, the section down from Coach & Horses is shocking. It's effectively been quarried through. Sorry, I wish I'd taken a photo. The level of destruction is shocking, with huge boulders torn up etc.

The joke about the espresso van isn't inappropriate. The people hiring out the MTBs will be happy.

[a dense loner]

Fuck me it's a path through the countryside that looks absolutely fine, a good job IMO. So what you're saying Dave is things should be left as they are as long as climbers and fell runners can get to see these wild places? I doubt very much it was built for electric wheelchair users tomtom more to stop erosion and keep people using one path.

[bigtuboflard]

Looks like it should be visible from space.

I'll make some enquiries on the consultation side. The last erosion control on this path was done with slabs wasn't it?

Slabs further north, towards Back Tor.

Would consultation have been a requirement here? As I understand it, the path is not a Public Right of Way, and it's on private land (albeit land that falls under CRoW).

More info here. Also note the specific mention of consultation requirement in regard to the Cutthroat BW. And not great news that DCC will be involved in this BW resurfacing work.

As an aside, similar 'yellow brick road' work was done on Cut Gate (a RoW) in about 2008-ish, and it's weathered in OK up there. Although it wasn't anything like as extensive as this (2.5km!), and I imagine Cut Gate gets far less traffic so there were fewer eyes to offend.

Be interested to know more about the background.

Didn't realise that consultation isn't required if its on private land and not a designated RoW, cheers Cofe. Still makes me wonder if they considered wider user group consultation though to ensure that the work being done was both known and took on board differing users views.

I do believe that over time it will become visually less intrusive and almost certainly allow the surrounding wider tracks to regenerate (you only need look at the section from Cutthroat Bridge to Whinston Lee Tor to see how wide it "can" get), but I'm still firmly of the belief that works of this sort could be carried out more sympathetically. I am also very keen to see just how many mountain bikers see it as now even fairer game to ride it (although I have been known to seek out less popular cheeky trails in the past myself).

[horn]

Got to say, my first thought when I saw that was really positive. Yeah, it's kind of ugly now (but not that bad), but it'll settle down. It also would be another great path that the missus can get up on her off-road handbike. Except it's not a bridleway is it. Just hope we can pass her trike off as a wheelchair if anyone complains!

As for getting a powered chair or scooter up there. that would be one hell of a mission, surely there's some big drainage ditches across it that would be tricky, you'd need a Boma 7 to handle that.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Fuck me it's a path through the countryside that looks absolutely fine, a good job IMO. So what you're saying Dave is things should be left as they are as long as climbers and fell runners can get to see these wild places? I doubt very much it was built for electric wheelchair users tomtom more to stop erosion and keep people using one path.

   

Well done Dense. You can claim your "Armchair Hill Walker" status now. Something to aspire to, I guess?

Have you been up there to have a look?

No, my concern - which isn't fully conveyed by the photos, is the way the path has been forced through areas, with major disruption to the landscape in several areas.

I'm not a great fan of making access easy for all, but I do not feel my stance is an elitist one. My personal feeling, and I appreciate that this is not an argument, is that it is the very lack of convenience which makes natural places valuable and appealing. I.e. why we go there.

Also, my concern is not merely over "how it looks", as it will blend in over time.

The points you raise about erosion control sound very speculative to me, rather than a considered appraisal of what was there beforehand, and whether or not remedial works were required. In my view, and experience over time, I'd say they were not required.

It seems inappropriate to speculate over reasons/excuses/policy behind the decisions to carry out the work, but there does seem to be a worrying trend.

You are clearly not worried or concerned, but I really don't understand your motivation for ridiculing the opinions of those who are. I have already acknowledged in my earlier post, that there will be those who are not offended by the new path, and you are clearly one of those; I'm not going to attack you for it. By the same token, I feel it can only be responsible for the voice of those who are concerned about our use of, and impact on natural spaces, to be adequately heard.