[Sloper]

Water on a toothbrush will remove tick marks completely.
It is perhaps a good idea if folk show marks being brushed off on their vids or put a text caption on to that effect.
There's two things here. Using tick marks and leaving tick marks when you finish. The latter is an issue, the former is a non-issue. You can laugh/ knock style points off folk for using them certainly, like you would for someone wearing orange trousers for instance, but there’s really no need to be starting pogroms about it.

Do you know what a pogrom is?  Fucking idiot.

[Bonjoy]

Water on a toothbrush will remove tick marks completely.
It is perhaps a good idea if folk show marks being brushed off on their vids or put a text caption on to that effect.
There's two things here. Using tick marks and leaving tick marks when you finish. The latter is an issue, the former is a non-issue. You can laugh/ knock style points off folk for using them certainly, like you would for someone wearing orange trousers for instance, but there’s really no need to be starting pogroms about it.

Do you know what a pogrom is?  Fucking idiot.

"An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews."
I assume your kneejerk abuse is based on the assumption that the word only refers to persecution of Jews. While that may be the root of the word its modern use is broader and includs any minority. So in the context of choosing an oTT term for effect I'd say my use was pretty normal, you have no cause to call me a "fucking idiot". I'll take your grovelling apology in the currency of your choice.

[Sloper]

Water on a toothbrush will remove tick marks completely.
It is perhaps a good idea if folk show marks being brushed off on their vids or put a text caption on to that effect.
There's two things here. Using tick marks and leaving tick marks when you finish. The latter is an issue, the former is a non-issue. You can laugh/ knock style points off folk for using them certainly, like you would for someone wearing orange trousers for instance, but there’s really no need to be starting pogroms about it.

Do you know what a pogrom is?  Fucking idiot.

"An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews."
I assume your kneejerk abuse is based on the assumption that the word only refers to persecution of Jews. While that may be the root of the word its modern use is broader and includs any minority. So in the context of choosing an oTT term for effect I'd say my use was pretty normal, you have no cause to call me a "fucking idiot". I'll take your grovelling apology in the currency of your choice.

As I said fuck off and die. Comparing the pogroms to a diatribe against tickets marks is not only fucking idiotic but trivialises the event, just as Jean Marie le Pen dismissial of the holocaust as a 'detail of history' is offensive so is your post.

So if you're waiting for an apology you're going to be disappointed, oh and Andy you can fuck off as well.

[Fiend]

Sloper have you never encountered the use of an OTT phrase or description to highlight or expose exaggeration before? Like referring to bossy people are "little Hitler" or similar?

If you can't cope with that nor understand it's linguistic use, you'd be better of staying away from the internet, television, and most other forms of popular media.

[Bonjoy]

Get a grip of yourself man! I could just as easily have chosen 'witch-hunt' or 'crusade' as alternative hyperbole, both of which also involved brutalisation of specific groups, both of which are also common parlance and both of which are unlikely to have raised any eyebrows including yours. On what basis is pogrom more objectionable exactly?
Additional pompous outrage/insult/puntering is not going to make you look any smarter at this point so try engaging for your next post.

[mrjonathanr]

Not sure I 'd agree about usage and pogrom Bonjoy, think it still retains original sense of a genocidal persecution, or at least it does for me.

Witch hunt and crusade remind me of modern contexts, I don't picture ducking stools and the Knights Templar.

Sloper is however, tilting at windmills here 

Not worth falling out over, Shirley?

[a dense loner]

It doesn't retain a sense of genocidal persecution. Is there a route called "genocide" at black rocks? Good word. Personally I think pogrom's a crap word, I just think of a dyslexic trying to write program. Before anyone smites me for this I actually do

[Bonjoy]

MrJ I'm assuming the guy with the skull avatar's crap use of quotes (fixed now) meant you didn't notice his charming "fuck off and die". At which point any discussion on the semantics of what I said became irrelevant.'Falling out over' would require something to fall out of in the first place.

[mrjonathanr]

Hi Bonjoy,

No I didn't notice that, I wouldn't have made a trite final comment if I had ...
..but that's a disgrace.

Anyone who posts that in this context is just demeaning themselves.

My point about the word was to just debate that - the word itself- with you, not to become embroiled in anything else, so please don't take it as anything beyond that.

We bouldered together once at High Neb with Gritlad, you may recall

[andyd]

Water on a toothbrush will remove tick marks completely.
It is perhaps a good idea if folk show marks being brushed off on their vids or put a text caption on to that effect.
There's two things here. Using tick marks and leaving tick marks when you finish. The latter is an issue, the former is a non-issue. You can laugh/ knock style points off folk for using them certainly, like you would for someone wearing orange trousers for instance, but there’s really no need to be starting pogroms about it.

Do you know what a pogrom is?  Fucking idiot.

"An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews."
I assume your kneejerk abuse is based on the assumption that the word only refers to persecution of Jews. While that may be the root of the word its modern use is broader and includs any minority. So in the context of choosing an oTT term for effect I'd say my use was pretty normal, you have no cause to call me a "fucking idiot". I'll take your grovelling apology in the currency of your choice.

As I said fuck off and die. Comparing the pogroms to a diatribe against tickets marks is not only fucking idiotic but trivialises the event, just as Jean Marie le Pen dismissial of the holocaust as a 'detail of history' is offensive so is your post.

So if you're waiting for an apology you're going to be disappointed, oh and Andy you can fuck off as well.

Yeah, thanks for direction there but I'm not going to. When are you going to realise that nobody respects you for being rude and aggressive? I don't want to read a topic in a community that I'm interested in and find it being constantly hijacked by someone with anger issues. It isn't tolerated anywhere else in society. There's a big range of people on this site with differing backgrounds. We don't lay into people for spelling and grammer. Malapropisms and egg-thingamybobs (ahhh can't remember!) pop up regularly. So you disagree with Bonjoy's use of a term. Big deal. Tell him politely. Don't wish ill upon him. I've never met the guy but I'm well aware of his contribution to the climbing community. What a despicable thing to say. When will you get the message? No one likes people being horrible to them. I can't imagine you tell your close friends and family to F off and die for the same reason.
On topic. Brush off your tick marks. This isn't a big deal and pales into insignificance when you consider the hardship of so many on this planet.

[Sloper]

MrJ I'm assuming the guy with the skull avatar's crap use of quotes (fixed now) meant you didn't notice his charming "fuck off and die". At which point any discussion on the semantics of what I said became irrelevant.'Falling out over' would require something to fall out of in the first place.

I should have added hypocritical fucking idiot as I remember you being so 'right on' otherwise.  It is a pathetic attempt to deny and deflect the nature of a pogrom by comparing it to a 'witch hunt' and is an approach redolent of the far right (and left) to say 'well the use of the word has moved on'.

The punter points are simply because the criticism was against a member of the 'in crowd' and I'm sure you've never heard the phrase 'fuck off and die', so it must have been a real shock, perhaps you'd have preferred me to say you should be 'raped' as I believe that's a popular expression with the yoof?

You'll not I didn't suggest that you were anti-semitic, just a fucking idiot.

[Sloper]

Sloper have you never encountered the use of an OTT phrase or description to highlight or expose exaggeration before? Like referring to bossy people are "little Hitler" or similar?

If you can't cope with that nor understand it's linguistic use, you'd be better of staying away from the internet, television, and most other forms of popular media.

Fiend, there's world of difference between the phrase 'little hitler' and not starting a pogrom, in my world I don't think I've heard of the use of the phrase other than it's correct historical context, the idea that the meaning is now not to reference the genocidal murder of thousands is simply fuckwittery of a world class order.

[Oldmanmatt]

Did you know "Gromit" means "to destroy with violence".
It forms part of the origin of the term "Pogrom", which in it's self predates the 1915 use of the term. Those events brought the word into common usage, not existence.

Pogrom has certainly been used to describe the organised "cleansing" of various sub-sets of society, both violently and by more passive exclusion (see the French anti-Semitic purges at the time of Dreyfus and Zola and often later referred to as a "Pogrom").

From Wikipedia.

"The term is also used in reference to attacks on non-Jewish ethnic minorities, and accordingly some scholars do not include antisemitism as a defining characteristic of pogrom. Reviewing its uses in scholarly literature, historian Werner Bergmann proposes that pogroms be "defined as a unilateral, nongovernmental form of collective violence initiated by the majority population against a largely defenseless ethnic group, and occurring when the majority expect the state to provide them with no assistance in overcoming a (perceived) threat from the minority,"

So, to be truly offensive, the term Pogrom would require a more specific prefix, such as "Jewish Pogrom" or "white middle class male Pogrom".


Most of this conversation can in fact be brushed off with a little water and little less literal, dogmatic, sensitivity...




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sloper]

Did you know "Gromit" means "to destroy with violence".
It forms part of the origin of the term "Pogrom", which in it's self predates the 1915 use of the term. Those events brought the word into common usage, not existence.

Pogrom has certainly been used to describe the organised "cleansing" of various sub-sets of society, both violently and by more passive exclusion (see the French anti-Semitic purges at the time of Dreyfus and Zola and often later referred to as a "Pogrom").

From Wikipedia.

"The term is also used in reference to attacks on non-Jewish ethnic minorities, and accordingly some scholars do not include antisemitism as a defining characteristic of pogrom. Reviewing its uses in scholarly literature, historian Werner Bergmann proposes that pogroms be "defined as a unilateral, nongovernmental form of collective violence initiated by the majority population against a largely defenseless ethnic group, and occurring when the majority expect the state to provide them with no assistance in overcoming a (perceived) threat from the minority,"

So, to be truly offensive, the term Pogrom would require a more specific prefix, such as "Jewish Pogrom" or "white middle class male Pogrom".


Most of this conversation can in fact be brushed off with a little water and little less literal, dogmatic, sensitivity...




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Chomsky would be proud of such convoluted logic. Rape as a threat is as offensive and threatening without the prefix of 'gang' or 'violent'.  Are you suggesting that a reference to 'lynching' is only offensive if prefixed by the phrase ''black' or 'n**ger'?

I'm just waiting for Bonjoy et al to spring to the defence of katie Hopkins

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/19/katie-hopkins-migrants-vermin-darkest-history-drownings, after all if it's acceptable to call Tories vermin, ho wrong can it be to call migrants vermin etc (a rhetorical question for the hard of thinking0.

[cheque]

Can someone split this thread 

[a dense loner]

And stop sloper posting on ukb as well

[SA Chris]

Can someone split this thread 

.....and lock and logpile this part. Nothing good has come of it.

[Bonjoy]

Right, I’ll have the last word in this tawdry affair, be as patronising as I like and then lock it because I know it will annoy you and I owe you it for the foul mouthed insult. You might want to use that as an excuse to stop digging, or address me via PM if that’s too much to ask. It’s up to the admin/mods if you get banned, the suggestion has already been made, I’m still on the fence.
All in all I’m disappointed at how basic and lame your insults were. For a lawyer who always comes out with “call that an insult!” when on the receiving end I really expected more creativity, but.it’s hardly a shock to see your ‘fuck off and die’, it fits a long standing pattern. 
The bottom line is UKB is a bunch of folk I know and generally respect. I talk like I’m among friends most of the time and that includes using whatever words work for what I’m trying to say. I don’t go to great lengths to self-censor and I don’t agonise for hours about how PC or otherwise one of them might be. I expect people to read what I say in the context of who I am and what I am trying to say. If someone objects to something I say I’m more than happy to debate the issue, I love a good argument in fact. If you’d presented your objection in a level fashion and made a case in the thread or via PM for why you found it offensive, I’d have swapped the word for another one without hesitation. On UKB I don’t expect people to dive on a word and use it as an excuse to go off on some foul mouthed insult spree based on what looks like manufactured offence Given your apparent simmering resentment about some perceived ‘right on’ ‘in crowd’ thing it just looks from here like a weak excuse to empty your gut of a little bile.
If you’d taken the time to read around you would have come to the conclusion that my word use could be argued to be contentious (if you’re the ultra PC type and have an eagle eye out for opportunities to pull the race card), but was not unusual or without precedent, nor inappropriate/culturally specific according to plenty of recorded definitions. Like your suggestion of ‘lynching’ another word I could have used to make my point, which everyone would have understood to mean what I intended it to and nothing to do with murdering folk. Hell I could have said “no need to blow up the solar system” it’s all about context. My use of the word pogrom  would have made an opener for a reasoned debate, but it was far too bland and unremarkable to justify crass invective. And that is the nub of the issue, the context is UKB, the context is people who know what I am trying to say, the context is people who know I have the wit to understand what the word means*, the context is conversational use of metaphor in a light-hearted environment. I mean FFS it’s not worth starting a pogrom about!
*As a matter of fact in this instance I HAD checked two online dictionaries to make sure my understanding of it as none racially specific was correct, yes that’s how ‘right on’ I am.