[Three Nine]

So what sort of PEDs would be good for climbing? I mean good as in making you better at climbing. It'd be interesting to know.

[jwi]

Transfusions - you bring them up.  I love the way these always get brought up.  Usually with argument about how it's totally fine to have someone take your blood out, centrifuge it, stick it in a fridge, then re-inject it into you just when you need it because the other guy has the funding to live on mount fuji for a month and the other bloke is on argon anyway and yeah it's totally fine and undetectable anyway and you're on my team too, so by hell you'd best shut the fuck up and get out or open up your veins in the same way because by God I'm not going to lose because you aren't man enough to commit to this team and have transfusions.

For fuck's sake.

Blood transfusions are certainly not without severe health risks. And unnaturally high red blood cell count have nice side effects like cerebral embolism, stroke, etc.

[tim palmer]

Neither is prolonged exposure to altitude

[Nibile]

So what sort of PEDs would be good for climbing? I mean good as in making you better at climbing. It'd be interesting to know.

You're missing the point. There's no drug that can make you better at climbing, just like there's no drug to make you better at playing tennis, or skiing. Drugs can only improve your physical abilities, but can do nothing about technique.
So, if by "better" you mean "better", there are no drugs. If you mean "stronger" there could be many, from anorexizants, to ansiolytics, to cocaine, to steroids, each one with its pros and cons, and each one that's been probably already tested by someone.

[r-man]

Has Johnny Brown hacked Nibile's computer?

[abarro81]

I want some of the EPO lark.

[Lund]

I want some of the EPO lark.

So you should it's the fucking bomb.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test

[Nibile]

Has Johnny Brown hacked Nibile's computer?

No.
image by Nibile, on Flickr

[r-man]

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Wada doesn't ban drugs without evidence that they are performance enhancing in certain doses/situations etc.

The idea of PEDs at all, strikes me as nebulous and I'd have to say it seems such a sliding scale that starts in a very "off white" (what about a cup of Camomile tea and a few puffs of O2 during warm up and IF Meditation  is effective, how about that?).
The scale then bumps a squiggles it's way through several murky and indistinct hues to the darker shades of anabolic steroids et al.

Once again we slam down a human construct, an arbitrary  line in the sand and bleach some of the greys and tint others.

I've always felt the real objective of such rules should be protection of athletes from themselves and unscrupulous coaches/agents/parents etc etc, from those "drugs" that might cause harm.

I honestly don't view a puff of dope prior to competition as any more "unfair" than a protein shake after training.
Or, come to that, why is transfusion doping any more unfair than protracted high altitude training?


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Soz, this is abject bollocks.

The things on the list are banned because they are performance enhancing.  Because they are viewed by most people as cheating.

You talk about arbitrary lines.  Life is full of arbitrary lines.  Life isn't black and white - it's shades of grey and judgement etc. but sport is an attempt to simplify things.  In the modern world, we view it as a fair, equal, competition, based on the rules - the codification - and the spirit of the game.

Doping rules are part and parcel of that sport.  Just like not being able to use your hands in football, if you don't like the rules, if you don't want to play the game, fuck off and play on your own or find your own game.

What if you don't want to smoke dope, but all the other competitors are doing it to win and so you end up having to smoke dope or find another sport?  Sound fair?  Not to me it doesn't.  Unless you entered it knowing that it was all about spliffs.

That's without even getting into the health aspects of it.

Transfusions - you bring them up.  I love the way these always get brought up.  Usually with argument about how it's totally fine to have someone take your blood out, centrifuge it, stick it in a fridge, then re-inject it into you just when you need it because the other guy has the funding to live on mount fuji for a month and the other bloke is on argon anyway and yeah it's totally fine and undetectable anyway and you're on my team too, so by hell you'd best shut the fuck up and get out or open up your veins in the same way because by God I'm not going to lose because you aren't man enough to commit to this team and have transfusions.

For fuck's sake.

No.
What you have written is though, as you have missed my point by a nautical mile.
Come down off the high horse and note my objection is to the specification of certain recreational drugs and not others; whilst other activities and practices which achieve similar effect with similarly high health  risks are viewed so differently.

I'm not advocating any of them.



Other recreational drugs,such as alcohol are not proscribed. You are quite at liberty to knock back a calming shot of vodka, if such is your want, prior to competing.
The negative health aspects of alcohol consumption are well known and I've met several people around Torquay on a Friday night who swear it makes them immortal supermen...

Your conjuring an image of the entire IFSC World Cup squad, stoned, giggling and chomping munchies at the next comp; is slightly amusing though.

[Lund]

Other recreational drugs,such as alcohol are not proscribed. You are quite at liberty to knock back a calming shot of vodka, if such is your want, prior to competing.

Not in general.

In cases where alcohol is dangerous - e.g. motorsports - it's banned in competition.  In cases where it's a performance-enhancer - e.g. rifle sports - it's banned.  In others, the negative effects mean that there's no need to ban it.

You can drink booze before you go climbing.  But you'd be foolish, so goes the theory.

[SA Chris]

Yeah, climbing with a hangover sucks.

[r-man]

You can drink booze before you go climbing.  But you'd be foolish, so goes the theory.

Seems like you'd be foolish to smoke a joint before a bouldering comp according to this passage from the link that was posted earlier...

smoked cannabis affects cognition and performance, causes memory loss, executive function, and motor impairment, among other undesirable effects

Perhaps these downsides would be less of a factor in the route comps where problem solving and dynamic coordination aren't needed at quite the same level?

[ghisino]

I think a minority of athlètes could benefit from the anxiety and inhibition reduction of a light smoke.

Person all speaking I've often smoked before or during a bouldering session without significant performance reduction, as long as it was a very moderate quantity.
It did affect my psyche in 2 ways:
-lazier, more inclined to take long rests in between attempts
-more playful and less affected by "good attempt anxiety".

I would go as far as saying that on some occasions it has helped.
I wouldn't do it on the occasional friendly bouldering comp as I normally have a good,level of arousal for that exercise (doing 25 problems over 2hrs on a very crowded wall)

So it could be a performance enhancer for those who always overshoot their arousal level???

[moose]

So, are any other children-of-the-eighties getting flash-backs to legendary "sportsman" Bill Werbeniuck - the snooker  player who had  to drink to offset his shaky hands (and supposedly lived in a Winnebago with plumbed-in beer). 

His finest achievements, to cite Wiki:

"Some of Werbeniuk's most famous feats of drinking include: 76 cans of lager during a game with John Spencer in Australia in the 1970s;[2] 43 pints of lager in a snooker match/drinking contest against Scotsman Eddie Sinclair in which, after Sinclair had passed out following his 42nd pint, Werbeniuk was reported to say "I'm away to the bar now for a proper drink";[7] 28 pints of lager and 16 whiskies over the course of 11 frames during a match against Nigel Bond, in January 1990 – after which Werbeniuk then consumed an entire bottle of Scotch to "drown his sorrows" after losing the match.[2]"

[fatneck]

Slightly off the off topic discussion but I found this vid from Udini of the Euros particularly interesting for the following reasons;



1. The camera angles are really insightful. Several times it took me a few minutes to realise the climbers were on problems I'd already seen from poorer angles! Point for future comps?
2. Obviously it's interesting to compare styles etc. Seems Udo does this regularly after comps and the other ones from last year are well worth a watch. One of the women's ones from last year showed very clearly why Jule is number one - quicker, cleaner (if that makes sense) and reads problems sooo well...
3. Stefan Scarperis send of mens 3 was fucking awesome!

[Wood FT]

Yeah, climbing with a hangover sucks.

 

[Three Nine]

I enjoyed the article linked to above. If I could afford HGH i'd be all over that shit. In fact, if I were Simon (ie. old/loaded/unlikely to do the Oak) i'd take HGH/testosterone, as it might well make it possible.

Personally i don't give a shit if other people thought it was cheating. I take benzos to sleep and relax, maybe that's cheating but i'm so crap i need to cheat.

[Three Nine]

Also in that udo vid, at 0.55 Ondra puts his hands in a tuppaware. What's the deal with that?

[a dense loner]

It's got water in so he can cool his fingers down, or whatever the water does for him.

[Three Nine]

Oh right, i'd have thought that'd make your skin all horrible and soft

[Nibile]

Ondra "suffers" from very dry skin, which, on plastic, is a problem.

[GraemeA]

better watch the qualliys though, I don't think he has made semis before..

Quals aren't webcast, so it is lucky that you are totally wrong about Ty. he made the final in 2008, semis a couple of years ago and semis last year in Toronto. So overall he has over 50% success in getting to semis.

[GraemeA]

Oh, recreational - not PEDs...
http://newsletter.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/about-ifsc/anti-doping

I may be N=1 on this, but the specification and test for recreational (non-stimulant or PED) drugs pisses me off.


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Care to elaborate?

Edit: you already have so ignore this post

[GraemeA]

Wada doesn't ban drugs without evidence that they are performance enhancing in certain doses/situations etc.

WADA does however ban drugs that might have safety implications, ie you can't be pissed when competing and similarly you can't be off your face on E while competing