[Bobtheboulderer]

Hi there! I'm posting here because I have a problem. I've been bouldering for roughly 2 years now and in the beginning I was making these incredible gains. I went from 3a to 5c in about 4-5 months. I was really happy because I made a lot of progress. But the last 7-9 months I've been stuck on the same level (6a-6b). A few weeks of no progress wouldn't frustrate me all that much as long as I would be getting better in the long run. Now 7 months have passed and I'm still at the same level and all the people who were at my level are now climbing atleast 6c's.

My weak points are balance and control. I can do most hard moves dynamically as I have (relatively) well developed lats as well as some serious abs, but I can't do them slowly and static. What happens is that I get very shaky.

My legs are also not very strong. I cannot stand up on one leg (from a sitting position). My body looks stronger and my pecs look more developed lately, but I'm not getting better.

I climb really fast, because like I told you I get very shaky otherwise. I'm 6'3 (192cm) weigh 161 pounds (73 kg) and I look lanky. I can do approx. 25 push ups in one rep. do about 45 situps in 2 mins and about 5-6 pull-ups.

I really don't know how I can get any better, I've been bouldering 3 times a week (every week) for the last 2 years. I climb for about 2 hours per session.   If you could help me out with some advice or a training schedule or some links I'd be really grateful!!   

[moose]

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

Samuel Beckett

[shark]

My legs are also not very strong. I cannot stand up on one leg (from a sitting position). My body looks stronger and my pecs look more developed lately, but I'm not getting better.

I climb really fast, because like I told you I get very shaky otherwise. I'm 6'3 (192cm) weigh 161 pounds (73 kg) and I look lanky. I can do approx. 25 push ups in one rep. do about 45 situps in 2 mins and about 5-6 pull-ups.

I really don't know how I can get any better, I've been bouldering 3 times a week (every week) for the last 2 years. I climb for about 2 hours per session.   If you could help me out with some advice or a training schedule or some links I'd be really grateful!!

Situps and pressups are minor attributes / exercises for climbing. Deadhanging from a fingerboard (or edge) and pullups are far more important. 5-6 pullups is low so this worth working on. A deadhanging session should involve 30 min warmup of progressively harder hangs then doing a set of hard hangs of between 5 and 30 secs in crimped, half crimped and drag position. A phase of deadlifting will quickly improve your leg strength. A coach will advise you better in analysing your specific weaknesses and proposing a training programme. Buying a copy of Dave MacLeods 9 out of 10 Climbers is a good investment too.

[blamo]

I wouldn't compare yourself to other people directly.  You should always ask "what is that crusher doing, that I am not?"  Similarly, you should ask "what is that wanker not doing, that I am?"  Then change things accordingly...

Definitely focus on finger strength and technique.

Buying a copy of Dave MacLeods 9 out of 10 Climbers is a good investment too.

 


If you are in it for the long haul, then focus on improvement and enjoying the process.  Unless you are planing on paying the bills through climbing, don't worry about any of it too much.

 

[bigtuboflard]

You also don't mention if you do the majority of your climbing indoors or out. I'll put my neck out and guess mostly indoors? If so, get outside some more and work on footwork and technique. Intentionally try and slow things down when climbing too; yes, you may well be shaky on stuff at your limit but I tend to find it helps my core stability.

Finger strength too as shark says.

And finally a few one legged squats might not be too bad a idea. They'll help with balance and stability plus on slabby stuff it'll help lots being able to put some controlled power on to your feet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bendavison]

I'm amazed how many of you are mentioning finger strength/fingerboarding as a limiting factor/way to get better.

Go climbing more, think about climbing more, try hard.

[Three Nine]

Oh the irony

[Hoseyb]

I agree with Ben, let the fingers strengthen with ability, especially in the 6's
feet feet feet. Unless you're Nureyev, there are always gains to be made here. If you are favouring a dynamic style, then you might be masking footwork errors, and core weakness.

Good core, good feet, good brain, strive towards these things.

[36chambers]

I'm in agreement with ben here.

I don't think there needs to be much emphasis on fingerboarding, if any, when trying to break into the 6c's.

Work your weaknesses and enjoy the process. Climb more things as slowly and as controlled as possible even if it means dropping your grades a little to begin with.

I have a friend who shakes a hell of a lot, it just means he's trying really hard and that's fine. 

[petejh]

Thing that I wonder when people ask generic questions like 'what should I do to get better at climbing' is how do you know anyone giving you advice on here is worth listening to? They may have taken 6 years to get to f7A.

My advice (which if I were you I'd ignore): try harder problems, until you do them. Repeat through until about the age of 50 then taper off.

[Paul B]

why does that only apply to generic questions? 

OP: I'd just go climbing and try as hard as you can every session to get your technique as dialled as possible / move efficiently. Try to fight the internal urge to chalk everything up as "not being strong enough"...

I cannot believe people (Shark) are even suggesting deadlifting/fingerboarding would be at all appropriate in this circumstance.

[shark]

His rate of progress and physical dimensions mean he is not a mutant. He already bouldering 3x a week which is optimal and plateaued so some supplemental work is in order. Finger strength gains are slow so start early. The dead lift suggestion was a specific response to his complaint about standing up on one leg.

And Bendavison - shame on you

[TheTwig]

Hi there! I'm posting here because I have a problem. I've been bouldering for roughly 2 years now and in the beginning I was making these incredible gains. I went from 3a to 5c in about 4-5 months. I was really happy because I made a lot of progress. But the last 7-9 months I've been stuck on the same level (6a-6b). A few weeks of no progress wouldn't frustrate me all that much as long as I would be getting better in the long run. Now 7 months have passed and I'm still at the same level and all the people who were at my level are now climbing atleast 6c's.

My weak points are balance and control. I can do most hard moves dynamically as I have (relatively) well developed lats as well as some serious abs, but I can't do them slowly and static. What happens is that I get very shaky.

My legs are also not very strong. I cannot stand up on one leg (from a sitting position). My body looks stronger and my pecs look more developed lately, but I'm not getting better.

I climb really fast, because like I told you I get very shaky otherwise. I'm 6'3 (192cm) weigh 161 pounds (73 kg) and I look lanky. I can do approx. 25 push ups in one rep. do about 45 situps in 2 mins and about 5-6 pull-ups.

I really don't know how I can get any better, I've been bouldering 3 times a week (every week) for the last 2 years. I climb for about 2 hours per session.   If you could help me out with some advice or a training schedule or some links I'd be really grateful!!

I would work your weaknesses. Judging from your post I would concentrate on:

• balance - climb more vertical and slabby stuff where it's harder to 'cheat' by doing every move dynamically or jumping for holds. Anything that forces you to take your time. (focus on your feet!!). Whats your general technique like? Do you do lots of flagging, drop knees, heelhooks etc?
• Climb slower in general. It will force you to find more efficient ways of climbing (In my opinion), rather than thrutching your way up by going super fast and holding onto every hold as hard as possible
• On the shaky thing, as in cramping up or just running out of strength quickly? You might have a magnesium deficiency or something like that. Might be worth looking into
• Do you always climb at the same place? Try somewhere else

[shark]

Shaking is fine - you just need to find your natural resonance. Ask Rob Barker.

[fatdoc]

A week in font, going for whole blue circuits in the honeypot areas ( thery are such for a good reason) would...

Change your life mate.

[blamo]

If finger strength is not worth improving when breaking into the 6C range, then at what general grade would people consider it worth improving?

[abarro81]

He already bouldering 3x a week which is optimal

Is it fuck

[petejh]

If finger strength is not worth improving when breaking into the 6C range, then at what general grade would people consider it worth improving?

Unless your finger tendons have the resilience of brittle saplings - which would probably preclude you reaching 6C - then I'd say around 7B/C (routes >8a+) is when some specific finger strengthening exercises may be beneficial, provided the time spent fingerboarding it isn't at the expense of time spent trying hard on real climbing.
Caveats to that are: recovering from a finger injury i.e. controlled progressive loading of the injured finger tendon; or no accessible climbing nearby i.e. it's the fingerboard or nothing.

But I'm shit at climbing.

[shark]

He already bouldering 3x a week which is optimal

Is it fuck

2 years in - seriously ?

[ducko]

The best thing to do is analyse your climbing or better still get someone else too watch you climb, find out what's making you fail and then target that, everyone has their own opinion on what's best so there is no correct answer but here's my opinion, If you can be honest with yourself about what you're not as good at then target that you'll always improve and get through plateaus.
I've always climbed dynamically so I've got ok upper body strength but my footwork and lower body tension is lacking so I'm targeting that, I find doing this helps keep the ball rolling well, personally.
Good luck and it's about having fun so don't get to worked up when you hit a wall from time to time

[ducko]

I have a friend who shakes a hell of a lot, it just means he's trying really hard and that's fine.

Doylo? 

[joble]

Just try harder

[Doylo]

I have a friend who shakes a hell of a lot, it just means he's trying really hard and that's fine.

Doylo? 

I only shake on certain things! And granite, i shook a lot on granite. Think it happens when i'm weak.

[Jim]

if you mainly climb indoors pull ups will help most, keep at them until you can do at least 20

[Sasquatch]

I'd actually go the opposite direction.  I think you shouldn't try so hard. 

After all, the best climber is the one having the most fun.  Generally, I find that to be the best piss taker.  So, work on the piss taking skills and you'll soon be the best climber in the world. 

[Bobtheboulderer]

balance - climb more vertical and slabby stuff where it's harder to 'cheat' by doing every move dynamically or jumping for holds. Anything that forces you to take your time. (focus on your feet!!). Whats your general technique like? Do you do lots of flagging, drop knees, heelhooks etc?

Technique is definitely subpar. Vertical climbing is defiitely more difficult for me than sloped or even horizontal walls. I'm not sure about flagging, I do incorporate that stuff, but a lot of time my center of gravity still seems off. I do use my hips and hang low and such, but I am quite wobbly a lot. drop knees are going fine. Heelhooks have been going better lately, but I keep sliding of holds still some times. 

On the shaky thing, as in cramping up or just running out of strength quickly? You might have a magnesium deficiency or something like that. Might be worth looking into

It's my core I suppose. it's the same when I do press ups on rings. I get violently shaky very quickly. A good climber said to me that it's those little muscles that you're working out, so I guess that I haven't developed those? He said to me that it was my core that was probably insufficient which is weird because I do have developed a six-pack (I'm very thin so maybe that doesn't mean that much) and also obliques.

But I have this weird muscle developed on the left side of my body. This chart)  calls it the inguinal ligament. But what is so strange is that this 'muscle' has only developed on my left side and not on my right side. Maybe this is part of my core problem?

I also tried yoga, but I quit, because it was painfully hard to me. I couldn't do the moves as my body is like a plank of wood. It's the same when I deadhang and try to get my legs vertical. I can't do it. Not because of my core, but because I can't get them that high. 

[Bobtheboulderer]

my finger strength is mediocre. I can't do a pull up with just my middle fingers. They seem to lack in strength.

[bendavison]

He already bouldering 3x a week which is optimal

Is it fuck

2 years in - seriously ?

Yes! And why shame on me? Because I have used a fingerboard a lot? I barely did any fingerboarding until after climbing 8c.

my finger strength is mediocre. I can't do a pull up with just my middle fingers. They seem to lack in strength.

Do you mean in pockets or in slings? Either way, but especially in pockets, it doesn't necessarily mean your finger strength is mediocre. I'd say that's quite an advanced 'exercise'.

I don't have a clue what that ligament on your left side might mean. Though I suspect its not the reason you haven't improved for half a year.

[kelvin]

my finger strength is mediocre. I can't do a pull up with just my middle fingers. They seem to lack in strength.

I can manage two - and I climb even lower grades than you. I think it's pretty irrelevant.

So I asked a similar question a month or so back on here. Had advice from Ben and Moose to go climbing, lots said get a coach... others said sort my pullups ( I can do only three). Just going climbing hadn't worked for me, I also knew how to train but perhaps I wasn't training the right things. So I went and saw a coach, who focused on movement...

It may not be what's holding you back but he spotted things that non of my mates had noticed. I'd get in the right position, had neat footwork, fingers were passable, as was endurance but I got nowhere - I'd blame inflexibility (I am) weakness (I am), started yoga (was rubbish) but it seems I just didn't initiate any momentum. So every move felt harder than it should, because it was. Happily, I can now 'just go climbing' because I have a handle on how to climb, which I didn't before.

So yeah, try harder than you have, rip the piss more and eat ever more cake. Go to Font soon.

[Oldmanmatt]

Going back to the OP...

Two years are nothing.

You've plateaued for a few months, at most. A bad cold can cause that.

It will take months to develop the strength around the weaknesses you have already identified (even if you build/strengthen the muscles, it will take much longer for the tendons etc to catch up).

In short, it's way too early to worry.

Training, as described in painstaking and confusing detail in so many threads on here; is never wasted effort.
But...
Just buy the "9 out of 10" book and worry about the detail when you're building up for your first 8A, the year after next.

Getting a coach is always worth while.

But so is getting a mate to film you climbing (or better, use a tripod) and reviewing your own style. If you can, video others on the same problem.

Coach is better, camera is cheaper.

Get out and get some inspiration outdoors.

Or maybe even take a break?

Sometimes the best way through a plateau, is to do something else for a while.

[abarro81]

Note sure what you're driving at Simon? If your body can't handle more bouldering sessions then I'd wager it can't handle much additional fingerboarding either... and in the low-mid 6s I know which I think is likely to be the one best ditched.

[petejh]

So I went and saw a coach, who focused on movement...

It may not be what's holding you back but he spotted things that non of my mates had noticed. I'd get in the right position, had neat footwork, fingers were passable, as was endurance but I got nowhere - I'd blame inflexibility (I am) weakness (I am), started yoga (was rubbish) but it seems I just didn't initiate any momentum. So every move felt harder than it should, because it was. Happily, I can now 'just go climbing' because I have a handle on how to climb, which I didn't before.

I'll rip the piss.. Kelvin, how much did it cost to have a coach to tell you to use momentum for climbing? Because you could have read that for a few fuck-alls in a number of well-known books which have been around for ages, or got the info for free from a library or one of a hundred blogs out there detailing efficient climbing technique / use of momentum / lower body initiation of moves.

There's a movement in climbing towards seeing coaching as the panacea for all improvement, which is well-intentioned and I partly agree with it for some situations and levels of climbing. But... being a climbing coach of early-stage climbers (sub font/french 7) in the UK appears from the outside to be like shooting fish in a barrel. A sure-fire cash cow of people seeking improvement who don't require any special knowledge on the coach's part in order to satisfy. The coaching appears to be little more doling out very simple and well-known ubiquitous advice on movement and training technique, advice that can be got by anybody for free with a little independent thought.
I saw a coach once, just after I'd climbed my first 8a (get me). I'd probably have got to 8a sooner if I'd seen him earlier, but I don't think I'd have benefited so much when I was climbing in the 6s - sport or bouldering. That stage was all about self-directed learning and motivation to progress coming from within. You can argue that it's better to be directed in the 'right' direction but I'm not sure if that's true. I'm wondering - based only on the number of people who post on ukb and some snippets of conversation at crags - if there's some dumbing-down process going on similar to how the ubiquitous GPS has eroded people's ability to use a map.

O.P. - Seriously, there's never been so much access to good quality information about technique and fitness for climbing, and there's never been better facilities for indoor training and indoor climbing. Yet there seems an unending number of people posting on here who claim to be struggling to work out how to attain a standard around the low font 7s. When I started, back in prehistory, low font 7 was considered an everyday level that any keen climber would expect to attain with a bit of application. All the info required was available it just took some motivation to look for it and apply it.

There isn't any special exercise required to climb low font 7. You aren't going to discover some special weakness that only you have, target it with a special exercise that someone on ukb tells you about and then suddenly find you're a font 7A climber. The only ingredients that matter are motivation and application of that motivation. If you haven't got that or can't work out how to grow it then you aren't going to get anywhere.



Rant over. Pulled a muscle in my back and am laying around when I should be training endurance hence I'm grumpy as fuck.

[abarro81]

Whilst I agree with some of that, I'm not sure I agree with it that much if you don't know people who climb reasonably well and will impart their wisdom readily. I recall the first time someone pointed out to me that on steep ground you want to try to twist on straight arms rather than pull front on (I was climbing about F6a routes at this point). It was a fucking revelation. I'm sure I would have realised it eventually, but I dare say if I'd had more input along those lines at an early stage then I would have got better much quicker - drop knees, twisting, using momentum, generating movement from the lower limbs, hip positions etc. Even learning how to learn - how to think about moves, movement, why you're failing etc. It's basic, but basic can be good - after all, we get taught how to read, write, do maths.. We might pick these things up, like we learn our first words, but we learn them better with input from those who know already...

[Will Hunt]

Forget everything that these idiots have told you. Do this. Then do it the next day. Then the next day until you reach 8C.
https://myspace.com/masonkrochta/video/ab-ripper-x/50789881

[36chambers]

Forget everything that these idiots have told you. Do this. Then do it the next day. Then the next day until you reach 8C.
https://myspace.com/masonkrochta/video/ab-ripper-x/50789881

"Jason, nice my brother"

[kelvin]

I'll rip the piss.. Kelvin, how much did it cost to have a coach to tell you to use momentum for climbing? Because you could have read that for a few fuck-alls in a number of well-known books which have been around for ages, or got the info for free from a library or one of a hundred blogs out there detailing efficient climbing technique / use of momentum / lower body initiation of moves.

Yep. Got the books. Read them. Have decent climbers as mates, who like most climbers, try to apply what works for them to you. Blogs all bookmarked. I was banging my head against a brick wall constantly and frustrated as fuck.

Quote myself on UKB  "Cheers for the replies - I've considered getting a proper plan from a coach but to be honest, it feels a bit daft when I climb the sort of grades I do, I'm not exactly going to set Tom Randall's lattice board on fire". So I agreed with you Pete.... and dear god do I like to read. I love it. (Mostly sci-fi tho). Self-coached climber, 9 out of 10... blog after blog.

I learnt more in the first three hour coaching session than I had in the last three years. The next session was a bit of a revelation. So yeah, now I can take Moose's advice and just go and climb - I finally understand how to go about that. Sure, I'd have rather not forked out for coaching and spent the money on a trip somewhere but it's now been two or three weeks since the sessions and seems like money well spent. As beneficial as a set of brand new blancos for the slate... it'll take me years to put all the new stuff I learnt into practice, which means years of improvement. Yes, I'd agree with you that many 'coaches' dole out generic advice to the punter masses that amounts to no more use than all allezs added up but the two sessions I had were far removed from that.

I thought mentioning momentum to the OP was worthwhile Pete, no one ever put me right about my lack of it.

[petejh]

I'll go halves with you on the £80 we should get for bringing those groundbreaking concepts to people's attention.

I remember first reading about initiation, momentum and twisting in etc. and then being well psyched about going to the wall to experiment with these new concepts. I was that saddo who did eyes-closed top-roping up the kids slabs to learn better how to initiate moves from the knee, hips or feet. It didn't require a coach to teach me what I could read about and then experiment with on my own...

I did gain a lot from coaching when I was in the higher grades however - like you, the one day with a coach (Ste Mac) that I had felt like it taught me more than I'd got out of any number of days climbing.

[kelvin]

I'll go halves with you on the £80 we should get for bringing those groundbreaking concepts to people's attention.

Don't forget London rates are dearer... I get the biggest share.

30 years of going up and down dodgy ladders and rickety steps with at least one open tin of paint in hand - I'd pretty much drilled myself to not use momentum when climbing. Spilt paint costs money.

Rockovers - mate's advice usually consists of "get all your weight over the higher leg and stand up". So I did. Couldn't stand up  Using the lower foot to spring from was utterly alien to me for the above reasons, both the customer and their carpet would end up pissed off and I'd probably end up in A&E. I also played rugby, in the scrum and all the initiation of movement when trying to push the other mob back came from the bent leg... again, years of playing, training and coaching. So when it came to rockovers, I did what my harder climbing mates told me - got my weight over my leg and tried to stand up. No one ever said ' spring from the lower foot and if I read it, it didn't register.
Oh boy, did it feel alien at first but on the third climb up the wall, I was using side monos for balance and springing up, instead of pulling hard with both hands and my higher foot.

Maybe a young kid wouldn't need to be told that, or a natural climber but I did.

[petejh]

Well, you were another easy pay-day for some supposed 'coach'. I could have taught you that straight after I'd read about and taught myself to do it for the first time - I'm doubtful that it's knowledge worthy of the rates that self-styled coaches charge for it. Although I see yours and Alex's point about peers not helping.

Shark/Habrich - How about a sub-forum for the training sub-forum: 'Sub-7 climbers' advice'
To stop clogging up UKB with sub-7 climbers asking the same basic questions ad infinitum.

[rodma]

I prefer these threads than ones from experienced climbers asking people to diagnose and advise on rehab based upon their own personal "I've just broken my fingers" type diagnosis and then a week later "the pain has gone they're healed" revelation . What, healed from a bit of ice, they weren't injured to start with.

 Sorry, but I'm oldish and grumpy and I like that people are asking for training advice.

[Sasquatch]

Self awareness is very hard for most people, so they have very little actual awareness of their own body kinesthetics.  Often seeing yourself climb is one of the best things you can do(video yourself and a mate doing a problem-I bet you can see differences in the video you may realize in person). 

I think most grade 6 and even low-7 climbers (both sport and boulder) have very little awareness of how much climbing most grade 8 climbers do.  As such, they see the FBing and Campusing and other non-climbing training, and think they need more of that because they don't see the actual climbing volume.  That said, alot of it is also about climbing at the right intensity. 

So when folks are saying you need to climb more, it's both true and incredibly unhelpful.  You need to climb more of the right stuff.  Change gears for a bit.  Climb at a different wall with different route setters, climb outside, get on a rope instead of bouldering, gain a more diverse climbing background, and you'll quite quickly find yourself in the low 7's. 

As an aside regarding the dynamic vs. static movement:

All movement is dynamic-otherwise you're not moving. 

The question is how much of your body is moving and can you stop your movement prior to latching a hold.  I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing.  It happens as a result of mental blocks(fear-justified or not), lack of precision (sticking a pocket or a jam), or insufficient contact strength.  Look at yourself and ask why you move statically so you understand what to work on.  Fear is a mental aspect that can be trained - look at the rock warriors way as a starting point.  Lack of precision can be trained.  Contact strength can be trained.  But if fear is holding you back, then you can train precision and contact strength all you like, but you won't get better.  Same goes for the other aspects.

[abarro81]

I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing. 

Onsighting. That is all.

[kelvin]

I'd clog the whole board if I asked for advice on all my injuries 

[petejh]

I don't understand how you climb hard enough to injure yourself 

(from someone who pulled his back out between endurance laps on a 6a)

[Oldmanmatt]

Self awareness is very hard for most people, so they have very little actual awareness of their own body kinesthetics.  Often seeing yourself climb is one of the best things you can do(video yourself and a mate doing a problem-I bet you can see differences in the video you may realize in person). 

I think most grade 6 and even low-7 climbers (both sport and boulder) have very little awareness of how much climbing most grade 8 climbers do.  As such, they see the FBing and Campusing and other non-climbing training, and think they need more of that because they don't see the actual climbing volume.  That said, alot of it is also about climbing at the right intensity. 

So when folks are saying you need to climb more, it's both true and incredibly unhelpful.  You need to climb more of the right stuff.  Change gears for a bit.  Climb at a different wall with different route setters, climb outside, get on a rope instead of bouldering, gain a more diverse climbing background, and you'll quite quickly find yourself in the low 7's. 

As an aside regarding the dynamic vs. static movement:

All movement is dynamic-otherwise you're not moving. 

The question is how much of your body is moving and can you stop your movement prior to latching a hold.  I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing.  It happens as a result of mental blocks(fear-justified or not), lack of precision (sticking a pocket or a jam), or insufficient contact strength.  Look at yourself and ask why you move statically so you understand what to work on.  Fear is a mental aspect that can be trained - look at the rock warriors way as a starting point.  Lack of precision can be trained.  Contact strength can be trained.  But if fear is holding you back, then you can train precision and contact strength all you like, but you won't get better.  Same goes for the other aspects.

^^^^^
This.
And what I said earlier.

[mrjonathanr]

I'm unconvinced about the value of training and technique advice for people who have only fairly recently started to learn about how to climb. Not the principle of advice mind, but the actual information gleaned.

The reason is that it's in the abstract. What a book tells you may be sound, but you may not grasp its application properly. Or not as properly as when more experienced mates are rolling about in laughter at your misadvised efforts and don't stop till you start getting it right.

Having skilled more experienced climbers take the piss whilst you are actually climbing is 10,000 times more useful than a snippet from a book you only vaguely understand.

It's how we all used to learn...but if that scenario isn't applicable, a coach will do the same thing. With less mockery, but more wonga.

[Sasquatch]

I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing. 

Onsighting. That is all.

Fair enough, and in particular dangerous on sighting, but even then how much actual "static" climbing are you doing.  I'd argue the nuance of controlled dynamic vs. actual static, but now we're getting into very fine nuance at a high level.  Not something the bulk of sub-7 climbers should really be concerned with.

I'm unconvinced about the value of training and technique advice for people who have only fairly recently started to learn about how to climb. Not the principle of advice mind, but the actual information gleaned.

The reason is that it's in the abstract. What a book tells you may be sound, but you may not grasp its application properly. Or not as properly as when more experienced mates are rolling about in laughter at your misadvised efforts and don't stop till you start getting it right.

Having skilled more experienced climbers take the piss whilst you are actually climbing is 10,000 times more useful than a snippet from a book you only vaguely understand.

It's how we all used to learn...but if that scenario isn't applicable, a coach will do the same thing. With less mockery, but more wonga.

I fully agree.  Part of this that can be applied to self assessment is the cheerful and whole hearted embracement of failure as part of climbing. It's how you actually learn and progress. 

To the OP.  You've been "plateaued" at a grade for 7 months.  Shark has been projecting a single routes for 3-4 years (maybe longer).  Yet he's still learning and refining sequences and movement on that route after all this time.  I've had projects that have lasted longer than a decade despite doing all of the moves.  NEVER underestimate the complexity climbing offers and the potential for learning some tiny/subtle nuance that can make the difference between sending vs failure. 

[kelvin]

I don't understand how you climb hard enough to injure yourself 

(from someone who pulled his back out between endurance laps on a 6a)

I never injure myself climbing... just training   

[shark]

I also tried yoga, but I quit, because it was painfully hard to me. I couldn't do the moves as my body is like a plank of wood.

I wonder if this isnt indicative of the real problem? you try something - you find it hard - you give up too quickly. Somebody striving for improvement should ideally see this as an opportunity and do those hard-for-you yoga positions twice a day. Is this same with your bouldering ? ask your mates. And do some fingerboarding 

[krymson]

I agree with Kelvin that coaches can definitely be useful regardless of your level of knowledge. I've read all the books there are to be read and they've helped me loads, but every so often I still have things pointed out to me that makes me realize I've been doing something wrong for a while.

I've been climbing close to 5 years now but only last year a friend pointed out that i could do a drop knee for this one move that i was strenuously flagging on-- lo and behold i realized i had been massively underusing drop knees for most of my climbing career

That's an extreme(and slightly embarrassing!) example but basically im saying reading books is good but its hard to be completely self aware enough to always be your own best coach. It can definitely be worth paying for a coaching session if you feel you are stuck and are having trouble figuring out what to focus on to improve.

[mrjonathanr]

basically im saying ... its hard to be completely self aware enough to always be your own best coach.

Impossible, I'd say.  In any case anyone who was that good a self coach wouldn't be asking these questions here, they'd be out there cranking the rads.

To the OP
If yoga is that challenging, might that not be a strong hint to consider improving your flexibility?

[moose]

All movement is dynamic-otherwise you're not moving. 

You've obviously never seen me climb..... imagine primitive stop-motion animation of a badly dressed Anglepoise lamp ascending a crag!

[Sasquatch]

All movement is dynamic-otherwise you're not moving. 

You've obviously never seen me climb..... imagine primitive stop-motion animation of a badly dressed Anglepoise lamp ascending a crag!

I may attempt to make a video of this.......

[moose]

You don't need a video camera, a flick-book would suffice.  I don't so much as move, as execute a series of tableaus.  I suspect its a legacy of developing my climbing outdoors, at crags where I was frequently the only person around - a few painful hobbles back to my car gave me a pretty circumspect style - only going for moves that I was certain of making or reversing. 

[andy_e]

Climbing in stop motion must help with morph-o moves.

[kelvin]

a flick-book would suffice.  I don't so much as move, as execute a series of tableaus.

Moose - the definition of ultimate self awareness.

[petejh]

You don't need a video camera, a flick-book would suffice.  I don't so much as move, as execute a series of tableaus.

Is that because: 'All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players'?

[TheTwig]

balance - climb more vertical and slabby stuff where it's harder to 'cheat' by doing every move dynamically or jumping for holds. Anything that forces you to take your time. (focus on your feet!!). Whats your general technique like? Do you do lots of flagging, drop knees, heelhooks etc?

Technique is definitely subpar. Vertical climbing is defiitely more difficult for me than sloped or even horizontal walls. I'm not sure about flagging, I do incorporate that stuff, but a lot of time my center of gravity still seems off. I do use my hips and hang low and such, but I am quite wobbly a lot. drop knees are going fine. Heelhooks have been going better lately, but I keep sliding of holds still some times. 

On the shaky thing, as in cramping up or just running out of strength quickly? You might have a magnesium deficiency or something like that. Might be worth looking into

It's my core I suppose. it's the same when I do press ups on rings. I get violently shaky very quickly. A good climber said to me that it's those little muscles that you're working out, so I guess that I haven't developed those? He said to me that it was my core that was probably insufficient which is weird because I do have developed a six-pack (I'm very thin so maybe that doesn't mean that much) and also obliques.

But I have this weird muscle developed on the left side of my body. This chart)  calls it the inguinal ligament. But what is so strange is that this 'muscle' has only developed on my left side and not on my right side. Maybe this is part of my core problem?

I also tried yoga, but I quit, because it was painfully hard to me. I couldn't do the moves as my body is like a plank of wood. It's the same when I deadhang and try to get my legs vertical. I can't do it. Not because of my core, but because I can't get them that high.

There's a clue, sounds like you have a real core strength issue. Having a 6pack has absolutely nothing to do with how strong your core, or even abs are, it's just a result of body composition. I know because I had an 8pack as a club swimmer but wasn't all that strong at L-sits, situps, planks etc, and have a bit more fat on me now but arguably just as strong at those kind of exercises. I would get into doing some basic flexibility work on your rest days or after sessions at the bouldering gym, focusing on hips especially. One thing to note is as you improve range of motion you also have to improve the strength in that range, as you are only strong in the ranges you use. Classic example people who squat heavy but can't go all the way down, or people who bench press and don't go to the bottom.

Doing a bit of bodyweight/light weighted conditioning work would help too I imagine, a few pullups, pushups, dips, light overhead squats, etc etc etc.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, so it might be time to shake up your routine a little and introduce a few new things and then see what happens after everything settles down

[TheTwig]

So I went and saw a coach, who focused on movement...

It may not be what's holding you back but he spotted things that non of my mates had noticed. I'd get in the right position, had neat footwork, fingers were passable, as was endurance but I got nowhere - I'd blame inflexibility (I am) weakness (I am), started yoga (was rubbish) but it seems I just didn't initiate any momentum. So every move felt harder than it should, because it was. Happily, I can now 'just go climbing' because I have a handle on how to climb, which I didn't before.

I'll rip the piss.. Kelvin, how much did it cost to have a coach to tell you to use momentum for climbing? Because you could have read that for a few fuck-alls in a number of well-known books which have been around for ages, or got the info for free from a library or one of a hundred blogs out there detailing efficient climbing technique / use of momentum / lower body initiation of moves.

There's a movement in climbing towards seeing coaching as the panacea for all improvement, which is well-intentioned and I partly agree with it for some situations and levels of climbing. But... being a climbing coach of early-stage climbers (sub font/french 7) in the UK appears from the outside to be like shooting fish in a barrel. A sure-fire cash cow of people seeking improvement who don't require any special knowledge on the coach's part in order to satisfy. The coaching appears to be little more doling out very simple and well-known ubiquitous advice on movement and training technique, advice that can be got by anybody for free with a little independent thought.
I saw a coach once, just after I'd climbed my first 8a (get me). I'd probably have got to 8a sooner if I'd seen him earlier, but I don't think I'd have benefited so much when I was climbing in the 6s - sport or bouldering. That stage was all about self-directed learning and motivation to progress coming from within. You can argue that it's better to be directed in the 'right' direction but I'm not sure if that's true. I'm wondering - based only on the number of people who post on ukb and some snippets of conversation at crags - if there's some dumbing-down process going on similar to how the ubiquitous GPS has eroded people's ability to use a map.

O.P. - Seriously, there's never been so much access to good quality information about technique and fitness for climbing, and there's never been better facilities for indoor training and indoor climbing. Yet there seems an unending number of people posting on here who claim to be struggling to work out how to attain a standard around the low font 7s. When I started, back in prehistory, low font 7 was considered an everyday level that any keen climber would expect to attain with a bit of application. All the info required was available it just took some motivation to look for it and apply it.

There isn't any special exercise required to climb low font 7. You aren't going to discover some special weakness that only you have, target it with a special exercise that someone on ukb tells you about and then suddenly find you're a font 7A climber. The only ingredients that matter are motivation and application of that motivation. If you haven't got that or can't work out how to grow it then you aren't going to get anywhere.



Rant over. Pulled a muscle in my back and am laying around when I should be training endurance hence I'm grumpy as fuck.

Meh. Couldn't disagree more. Everyone's body is different, some people just don't respond as well to training as others do. I certainly get by with technique in most of my climbing, and any time the problem is one of those 'you can do it or you can't' physically, I without fail won't be able to do it.

I agree with abarro, the first time someone explained to me how to rock over properly, and learning how to flag by watching someone else on the steep wall were absolute revelations. If I had learned those (and other) techniques sooner it would have kick-started the learning progress. I spent my first year just getting up to french 6a from 5, and then went from 6a to 6b+ in the second year as that was when I really got my technique dialed in and brought shoes that were a decent fit. This whole mindset with learning to climb by going through some kind of purgatory where you have to figure out everything for yourself with absolutely no help from a coach just seems ridiculous IMHO. In what other sport do you go into the training area or gym and are just expected to improve? Certainly not in any martial art, or gymnastics, or swimming (those are just the ones I've done). You have a coach or teacher, or even your peers who analyse your technique and make sure you are pointed in the right direction. I wish I had someone tell me not to crimp so much when I was starting out, would have saved myself a minor pulley injury and a few months of painful hangboarding until my openhand was just as strong as my crimp.

Just my 2 cents

P.s. to Bobtheboulderer, you could consider getting "The Self Coached Climber", pretty decent book and I found some interesting points on technique that helped me, even though I had been climbed 2 or 3 years before I got it.