Can we be clear about a couple of basics here.if you are fine holding the larger holds, without your fingers camming against the sides of the hold in any way, then it is your fingers that are the weakness, not your chest/back, otherwise these would be holding you back on the bigger holds as well.years ago i used to think i had strong fingers, since i was good at fingery routes/problems and could hang off smallish holds two-handed. i could not hand one-armed from even a reasonably small hold without doing a weird rotation failure nose dive descent back onto the mats, but could do about 3 one-armers on a jug. i aslo thought i was lacking somewhere other than my fingers, even though i patently wasn't.with two hands on, it is very easy to cheat by nestling, or camming, or whatever, unless your pecs are tired/weak.
Can we be clear about a couple of basics here.if you are fine holding the larger holds, without your fingers camming against the sides of the hold in any way, then it is your fingers that are the weakness, not your chest/back, otherwise these would be holding you back on the bigger holds as well.years ago i used to think i had strong fingers, since i was good at fingery routes/problems and could hang off smallish holds two-handed. i could not hand one-armed from even a reasonably small hold without doing a weird rotation failure nose dive descent back onto the mats, but could do about 3 one-armers on a jug. i aslo thought i was lacking somewhere other than my fingers, even though i patently wasn't.with two hands on, it is very easy to cheat by nestling, or camming, or whatever, unless your pecs are tired/weak.fingers, fingers, fingers, train em and don't believe that you are strong enough to hold something smaller than you actually can if the evidence is pointing the opposite way.
With regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.
anyhoo, just train, train, train
It sounds like you might be having a hard time dialing in the correct intensity. Your first hang in a set might be too hard and then you switch grips to something that might be too easy. If you are not already, you might consider adding or removing weight. The RCTM has a fairly detailed discussion on repeaters. You could also just get the info from their blogs:http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2012/08/30/hangboard-faq-0-what-is-a-basic-hangboard-routine/Good luck with it!Quote from: rodma on March 05, 2015, 03:27:52 pmanyhoo, just train, train, train Don't get too caught up in the details.
Gary,What kind of level are you at?By the sounds of things you're doing your repeaters 2 handed, yes?If so, I think you (if it's feasible) spend all your time climbing and don't bother with fingerboarding for now.
I cannot relate to chest strength being an issue, and it is not clear to me what you are doing to engage your chest; are you partly locked off and squeezing your arms together?
Not sure myself re my chest, I think I am just tensing everything in order to stop myself swinging about under the holds
Quote from: GaryNovis on March 05, 2015, 11:44:51 amWith regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.Just to be clear you do 4 sets of repeater hangs to warm up. After this you do 6 sets of repeater hangs on the SAME hard for you grip? Are you failing entirely on sets or just the last reps in a given set?Would you have the same difficulty if, after your warm-up, you did 2 sets of repeater hangs per grip on 3 different grips?
Some weird logic in these posts... People suggesting that if you can hang 1 armed off a jug then shoulder strength isn't the issue... I have no idea of the physiology of why pull strength is affected by hold size, but if you don't believe it try rock climbing sometime.
It's not as easy as it's just fingers kelvin, anyone can hang one-armed on a jug, not just climbers, anyone.
and just do something.
Yes, I am doing the hangs 2 handedMy level, although hard to quantify exactly as I mainly climb indoors, is sport 6c+ (desperately trying to get 7a) and v3/4 bouldering although have got the odd v5 and one v6I agree, should be climbing more but (and for the same reason I have now sold the sports car and am buying a golf), family life means my actual climbing time is limited to two sessions a week, on a Saturday morning when my lad sleeps I can sneak in a quick fingerboard session but unfortunately don't have time for much else Quote from: Fultonius on March 05, 2015, 04:18:08 pmGary,What kind of level are you at?By the sounds of things you're doing your repeaters 2 handed, yes?If so, I think you (if it's feasible) spend all your time climbing and don't bother with fingerboarding for now.
Quote from: GaryNovis on March 05, 2015, 05:13:29 pmNot sure myself re my chest, I think I am just tensing everything in order to stop myself swinging about under the holdsAre you actually hanging when you fingerboard Gary? Or locking off at 90deg or something? Might have something to do with it?Anyways - the new routes are all soft... no excuse not to do 7a now ;-)
Quote from: blamo on March 05, 2015, 03:12:55 pmQuote from: GaryNovis on March 05, 2015, 11:44:51 amWith regards to my current training plan on the fingerboard, I do repeaters, 6 reps of 7sec on, 3sec off with a 2 minute break. I do 3 sets on the jugs, then 1 set on the deep crimps as a warm up, then drop to the medium crimps for the workout, aiming to do 6 sets on those. Initially I can hang them no problem but it goes down hill rapidly and as I say I think it is my stability that is holding me back more than my fingers.Just to be clear you do 4 sets of repeater hangs to warm up. After this you do 6 sets of repeater hangs on the SAME hard for you grip? Are you failing entirely on sets or just the last reps in a given set?Would you have the same difficulty if, after your warm-up, you did 2 sets of repeater hangs per grip on 3 different grips?I'm probably bouldering about the same level as you, but unless our terminologies are completely different I'm confused. You do 10 sets of 6 hangs? I do 2 sets of 6 hangs and this takes about 40/45 mins, I can't believe you spend 4h BMing.I'm certainly not criticising your routine, just interested from the perspective of someone at the samish level.I do 2 sets of 6 hangs (6 reps x 6secs on/ 3 off) I start with 1 hang jug, 1 hang 4 finger deep, 1 hang front 3 deep, 2 hangs 4 finger deep, 1 hang jugs. I usually just fail on the second set and have to resort to jugs to finish. You seem to do a lot of easy sets, it could well be me misunderstanding BMing completely though.
Quote from: spam on March 05, 2015, 04:35:13 pmSome weird logic in these posts... People suggesting that if you can hang 1 armed off a jug then shoulder strength isn't the issue... I have no idea of the physiology of why pull strength is affected by hold size, but if you don't believe it try rock climbing sometime.I have given you the answer, it's a lack of finger strength no weird logic from me, just many people's brains (or egos) aren't ready to accept that their fingerstrength is lacking, even though they have tested it by trying to lock off and have failed. the reason you lower down is to prevent yourself from slipping off, you tend not to carry on applying the power as the grip is failing, instead you back off, it's the same with your feet on.
It is the finger strength.
Failure to maintain shoulder/scapula control on a two arm hang is not the same as one a 1-arm hang. Dense, one armed hangs are different, and everyone here is talking about 2 arm hangs at the moment.
Be sure to check your words guys, there's a sensible audience out here.
it might be helpful as you need to write inportant stuff in English.
I regularly fail on 3 finger half-crimps because I can't keep the shoulders down. My fingers aren't failing.
Quote from: spam on March 09, 2015, 06:31:20 pm I regularly fail on 3 finger half-crimps because I can't keep the shoulders down. My fingers aren't failing. I don't really understand what you guys mean about shoulders and scapula and all that, but isn't this along the lines of the erroneous logic that 'my elbows go up to the sky when I'm pumped so it must not be my finger flexors that are pumped'?
... on 45s it is definitely core not finger strength.