[MrBlue]

just some musings after my impressive failings on weds at high rocks...

i get pumped too quickly...i'm wondering whether this is directly linked to stamina - i tend get knackered on long problems and routes (on the odd ocassion i do them ) quite easily?

tis frustrating, because things i *should* be able to do i can't, because my arms lock up...like on craig-y-blanco yesteday - on the last moves my arms locked up and i couldn't physically move them to mantel over the top. subsequent attempts saw me flailing on the bottom section which i had got up quite easily previously...

anyway. any thoughts? and any ideas how i can improve the time it takes for my arms to get pumped?

[Fiend]

i get pumped too quickly...i'm wondering whether this is directly linked to stamina

Quite probably  :poke:

[Bubba]

See:

http://www.planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=211

http://www.planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=194

[the_dom]

I have blow-all stamina, so I know exactlly what you're talking about. I think it's probably to do with not ever climbing routes.

One thing I find that has helped (I have a little more stamina than I used to) is running, or basically any aerobic exercise.

You still get pumped indecently quickly, but a little less indecently quickly.

[Carnage]

If its the Sandstone then (short and hard- oo-err) your probably lacking power endurance rather than pure stamina.

I used to have a few problems like this and certainly improved when I started doing link up stuff, like finding a problem of say UK 6b that was maybe 5 moves longish and then tacking on a 15-20 move problem with moves of 5b/5c or whatever suits you in it. And then start lapping it. You'll find after a while that you've got the power to turn out a harder section after doing a reasonably tiring section.
This is more applicable to the sorter routes you find on SS.
 
And if you're having trouble with mantels, start bench pressing/knocking out the press-ups.

[Bonjoy]

Stamina is piss easy to build up compared to power. All you've got to do is get pumped (which for someone with no stamina is not difficult). Get proper solid pumped a couple of sessions a week and in no time you will be a stam lord. I've experienced considerable gains in stamina from a single week away sport climbing in the past.
 A couple of things tho. Never get overpumped on your warmup or try something proper pumpy without having first recovered from a mild warmup pump. One bad flash-pump can fuck you up for the whole day. Once warmed up don't underestimate how long you can keep going when pumped. If you get in the habit of pressing on when pumped you will get better at climbing in control even when your arms are burning and build stamina faster.
 Try and milk any small rest you can. Some people don't and always try and sprint up routes/travs, if you do this your body won't learn to recover on-route (however climbing sprint style will give you demon power endurance). The more you try to milk rests the smaller the holds you will be able to recover on. Once you can recover, most routes/travs can then be brocken down into boulder prob sections between which you acn get back to some level of freshness, rather than trying to take on all the climbing as one lump.

[Bubba]

Never get overpumped on your warmup or try something proper pumpy without having first recovered from a mild warmup pump. One bad flash-pump can fuck you up for the whole day.

I always find this a fine line which can be hard to judge - it can be easy to warm up just that bit too fast and then that's it, game over  :evil:

[dave]

i thought they reconned the best way to train stamina was to do loads of easier stuff thet gets you slightly pumped, rather than gettin all out pumped? i remember one of marious' articles, likining bonjoy's approach it to a runner who would run till his legs were so stiff he couldn't walk, sit down for half an hour smoking a fag, then run a bit more then go home.

personally i find that i've got fairly good power-stamina on small holds, but totally wack stamina on the kind of big flat open "jugs" you get on grit routes (breaks). i pinned this down to the fact that all my indoor climbing is on small fingery holds bouldering, so i would never actualy do any work on holds this big cos i never doo indoor routes, and roof problems on jugs alway hurt me hands, thus even thought they offered easyier climbing i was totally unprepared for it. basically i would always get pumped hanging around on even the biggest jugs like placing gear etc. so my solution to this: avoid that type of route.  bascially i;'m lazy and cant be arsed setting the time aside to train stamina. also i absolutley hate being pumped, i hated it when i first started climbing at that what made me go to boulderig indoors instead of routes, plus almost none of my ambitions lie in stamina stuff. as a kid at school i was always the bomb at the sprints, but wack at the distance stuff. its the same in climbing and i can't be arsed fighting it, its the way i is.

one more point is that i have got a likkle bit better stamina though the backhand method of not training stamina but training power, so instead of dealing with pump you just find the moves in general easier so don't get pumped. sort of.

[Bonjoy]

thought they reconned the best way to train stamina was to do loads of easier stuff thet gets you slightly pumped, rather than gettin all out pumped? i remember one of marious' articles, likining bonjoy's approach it to a runner who would run till his legs were so stiff he couldn't walk, sit down for half an hour smoking a fag, then run a bit more then go home.

 It works for me. I don't train as such but will always go 100% on a redpoint. I can see that physiologically this might not be the most efficient way to get maximum improvement but as I was saying it does condition you to be able to carry on climbing when you are utterly boxed which does get you up routes. Also i don't do loads of pointless volume, once you are getting knackered in a session you are best off stopping. So i guess i'm going for high resistance and low volume stylee. Morstad's a rim-weasel anyway.

[Fiend]

Sound advice there Beeman, however...

Stamina is piss easy to build up compared to power. All you've got to do is get pumped (which for someone with no stamina is not difficult). Get proper solid pumped a couple of sessions a week and in no time you will be a stam lord.

Yeah except it's so damn boring, training stamina!! Training anything over, oh I dunno, 10 moves, is just like, tedious, I find I run out of motivation to continue a long time before I get pumped enough.

This is for training though, actually doing inspiring long things - r****s, that is - is quite different.

[Bonjoy]

This is for training though, actually doing inspiring long things - r****s, that is - is quite different.

 That's pretty much my philosophy. I don't go in for training by doing tedious laps of Sardine or whatever, I go out and try stuff that I really want to do and get fit in the process. Being psyched for all types of climbing at all grades there is always something to go at at the correct level for my fitness which i also really want to do. This year i've chosen to soley concentrate on sport climbing, but most years I do about half and half trad and sport in summer. Hanging about fiddling gear in is amazing for long slowburn fitness.

[T.H.]

Now I've got a slightly different view on stamina.  I recently completed a project of mine which was a 45foot long bum dragging traverse.  I tried it all last summer and could nearly do all the moves every time, but could never link them all (even though Dave and certain others said it looked like a bag o' shite  :evil:  it was still pretty hard).  The best I managed was doing it in two sections.

All winter I've trained my ass off, so I'm loads stronger, but I did absolutely no stamina training.  Just low rep high intensity stuff. When I went back this summer after not having been on it for 10 months I nailed it in 3 visits.  Now I reckon that because I was stronger, the moves were further below my max. limit than before, meaning it took longer for me to get pumped.

So what I'm saying is, get strong as f*ck, then all holds will feel like jugs, then everything will feel easier and it will take longer to get pumped.  I reckon Neil Bentley's quoted as saying something similar in one of Gresham's articles too.

Also, I agree with Dave about genetics.  Some people will have a higher proprtion of Type two muscle fibres which don't do endurance, therefore they'll never build up good endurance.  I've always been good at sprinting, but never been able to do any long distance running, which is definitely reflected in my climbing.

[Bubba]

Tim, I'll get them traverse vids up soon mate.

[T.H.]

Cool, cheers mate.

[dave]

Now I reckon that because I was stronger, the moves were further below my max. limit than before, meaning it took longer for me to get pumped.

word - think thats what i was trying to say in my post above, but not so well. its besically the only way i've made any kind of stamina headway.

[ian h]

rekon good training for routes like nemesis, honeycomb, craig e blanco.

get the traverses of lord at high, and below hennesey hights at bowles wired, and then lap them. by the time you can do them a few times in a session you will piss up those routes.

[Bonjoy]

I'm not advocating long term stamina training. I don't touch the stuff right up till summer and find with a good base of power from winter bouldering that stamina comes quickly and naturally with minimal effort. Stamina really does build up ridiculously quickly with a fairly moderate amount of effort. All you've got to do is take the pain and indignity of getting stupidly pumped a few times. Trying something pumpy once in blue moon then saying you have no stamina is missing the point.

[hongkongstuey]

like evryone else says - i've always found it pretty easy to come by when you start hitting the routes on a regular basis (a quick Krabi trip always seems to do the trick for me)

on the flip side of stamina training - i seem to find that my power levels (already quite low) really plummet if i spend any length of time training on routes instead of boulder problems (needless to say, not touched a rope to train for over 18 months now........)

[Fiend]

Now I reckon that because I was stronger, the moves were further below my max. limit than before, meaning it took longer for me to get pumped.

word - think thats what i was trying to say in my post above, but not so well. its besically the only way i've made any kind of stamina headway.

A theory originally put forward by some squeaky-voiced Porsche-driving drama-queen who'd been known to crank a bit occasionally, if I remember correctly...

[MrBlue]

If its the Sandstone then (short and hard- oo-err) your probably lacking power endurance rather than pure stamina.

sounds like that might be the proble; i can do longer, easier routes/problems without too much trouble, but it's when the problems are solid powerful moves one after the other for the entirety that i seem to struggle... :roll:

the lapping thing sounds like a plan, i shall take over the traverses on sunday :twisted:  

fiend : :twak: