[Alan James, Rockfax]

NOTE - Message cleared with Shark before posting. Has also been posted on UKC.

We are working on the new edition of Eastern Grit at the moment. One of the questions that is cropping up is what grading system to use for routes which are now almost always highballed.

Our maxim at Rockfax has been to grade routes in the style that most people climb them, hence we are currently planning to switch some grades from trad grades to Font/V grades for the routes mostly climbed in this style.

Some examples (there are many more, and I am happy to take suggestions):

Ulysses' Bow - V7 7A+ instead of E6
The Promise - V9 7C instead of E8
Nicotine Stain - V4 6B instead of E2
Narcissus - V7 7A+ instead of E6
Oedipus - V4 6B instead of E4
Toy Boy - V10 7C+ instead of E7

We will also mention the E grade in the description for those contemplating it without mats. Conversely, for routes that have actual runners we will usually give the Trad grade - ie. Screaming Dream E7 with V11 8A mentioned in the description.

What are people's thoughts on this?

Feel free to use this thread to make suggestions for grades for routes that aren't boulder problems, but are now climbed in a bouldering style.

Alan

[Luke Owens]

Ditch the "V" grades

[Three Nine]

Allow me to take this opportunity to say how shit UKC is, without it being instantly deleted (like it would be on UKC).

[willackers]

I'd personally leave them all graded as trad routes with the suggested font grade in the route description.

Definitely scrap the V grades if you ask me.

[Johnny Brown]

Agree on the V-grades, unless you plan to append YDS grades to all the trad routes too. Actually don't do that either, just ditch them.

[rich d]

if it's in a bouldering guide - boulder grades (font not V) with route grade in description
If it's in a trad guide - trad grades with boulder grades in description.

If there's only one choice for database etc - then how it was originally climbed with either trad or font in description.

[Johnny Brown]

That's a very valid point about context. It's a trad guide isn't it?

[SA Chris]

Ditch the V Grades.

Oh and what rich d said.

I also think you should ditch the V grades.

[kelvin]

Please use Font grades not V grades whatever you decide to do.

[abarro81]

Agree that in a trad orientated guide I'd use trad grade with boulder grade in description.
Ulysses and Narcissus 7A not + IMO. Mint 400 7A/+.

[T_B]

I'd personally leave them all graded as trad routes with the suggested font grade in the route description.

I agree. Plus I don't think some of those examples routes listed are really considered to be highballs nowadays e.g. Ulysses. Some people might still aspire to do historical classics like that above a beer towel, rather than 30+ pads and spotters. Or choose to leave them.

[Will Hunt]

Ulysses and Narcissus 7A not + IMO. Mint 400 7A/+.

That won't do, Barrows. To provide correct information in the guidebook would completely fly in the face of Rockfax's unique brand.

Unless, of course, you are offering to buy a copy of the book - accurate route descriptions and grades may be provided where the information has been contributed by the paying punter.



Much of this is moot anyway. People with the ability to climb 7C on the gritstone are not normally in the habit of buying Rockfax guides.

[Johnny Brown]

Ulysses and Narcissus 7A not + IMO. Mint 400 7A/+.

I think it's very hard to pin stuff like this down to a font grade, Ulysses felt about 6b+ with a big snowdrift under the pads. And obviously Alex probably reached past the crux anyway.

Plus I don't think some of those examples routes listed are really considered to be highballs nowadays e.g. Ulysses.

I did have to have a think about this. They aren't in my 90's mind, but it is how almost everyone does them now, including me.

[T_B]

Plus I don't think some of those examples routes listed are really considered to be highballs nowadays e.g. Ulysses.

I did have to have a think about this. They aren't in my 90's mind, but it is how almost everyone does them now, including me.

I've never seen anyone on Ulysses and hadn't realised it was getting done in that style. Sad days

[Johnny Brown]

I've done it four or five times with none or one pad, but it got several hundred ascents with that snowdrift.

[slackline]

B-grades!

[willackers]

Did anyone mention ditching the V grades?

[webbo]

I like V grades as I prefer a Stetson to a Beret.

[tomtom]

Why not include American, Australian and SA grades too. After all we wouldnt want anyone to feel left out would we?

Then - if you had all the Font, V, AU, US, SA grades for EVERY problem, then you could fee up the page that conversion table occupies!

SIMPLE!

[cheque]

if it's in a bouldering guide - boulder grades (font not V) with route grade in description
If it's in a trad guide - trad grades with boulder grades in description.

If there's only one choice for database etc - then how it was originally climbed with either trad or font in description.

  Particularly the "no V grades" bit.

[Sloper]

Allow me to take this opportunity to say how shit UKC is, without it being instantly deleted (like it would be on UKC).

ha ha ha ha ha.

Alan?  Why not wait and see what the other guidebook writers decide

[Sloper]

B-grades!

yes the Old style John Gill B grades  when B1+ was an achievement

[tomtom]

Could we have some new Rockfax (C)(TM) Icons please? After all they've been around for a while?

I suggest one depicting a climber staring in confusion at a guidebook because of the mixed grading system? Possibly scratching their head looking bemused?

Or how about one of a guide book publisher looking out of their car window with a notepad and an already published guidebook?




EDIT: Damn... Sloper beat me to it!

[Sloper]

The last one is to complex I thin Cntrl V + Cntrl C would be easier to copy draw.

Edit Tom, 

Alan, I bet you love the way this is going don't you?

[shark]

I dont think in V grades but as I understand it the main reason for using them in general guides instead of Font grades is to avoid confusion with English tech grades.