[Will Hunt]

Last thread on this was back in 2008 so worth something new since the market will have moved on.

My Myo XP has given up (known fault of cable connection to lamp box) and it is out of warranty. Really like the torch but was perhaps over specced for what I need it for (lamp sessions, late walk outs, the odd night trad lark, going into the loft) and cost something like 60 sheets which is more than I'd like to spend this time round.

I'm not opposed to sending off the headtorch for repair to Lyon (UK Petzl distributor i think?) but it could be expensive and technically infeasible.

Any recommendations?

[psychomansam]

alpkit - cheap and effective

[dunnyg]

I bought a black diamond spot for about £35 a while back. Has been good for alpine stuff/scotch winter/general camping business and taking a shit when the light bulb broke in the bathroom and wasnt replaced for a monthish. Has a couple of settings most of which im not arsed about but the switching from "high energy spot light" to generic background light is pretty useful and it being regulated - ie not slowly fading but giving it all untill it stops is useful, as is the battery life indicator when you turn it on. Price might be a bit steep but should last foreverish. Battery life etc. pretty good.

 Not sure how it compares too much too others but i'm pretty happy with it, its better than a petzl tikka I lost a while ago. I've got a petzl zipka too which is suprisingly good. Some people find the thin chord strap thing on those horific though, probably better suited to a back up.

[the_dom]

I have a Petzl Tikkina that I bought as a backup for a Black Diamond Spot. I lost the Spot soon after and have used the Tikkina for the last few years without ever feeling like I needed replace it.

[Muenchener]

Have never felt the need for anything brighter (or heavier) than my Tikka XP2.

I do in fact possess a brighter/heavier torch, but only ever use it on the bike, never for climbing.

I bought a Chinese job for 4 Euros on Amazon. It's a very similar design to the Tikka, slightly brighter, works ok, has a gasket on the battery compartment etc. Generally seems fine. Am not quite ready to trust it with my life in preference to the Petzl just yet though.

[mini]

For this last winter of running, both on and off road, I've used a Cree Q5 500 lumen LED headtorch. At less than a tenner with delivery via Ebay, this has blown away my old Tikka XP2 both for clarity and versatility. May not be as durable long term as others on the market, and I've invested in rechargeable batteries, but bang for bucks...

If you can spare the time, use the search function on Fell Runner Forum, lots of threads on there by people who know there torches.

[GCW]

All my night runs have been done with an LED Lenser, which I have found very good.

[nai]

Also bought a Cree off ebay for just 4 fuck-alls delivered (no batteries but I get about 2 hrs out of 3 AAA Duracells), not sure which model there are loads of options.  It's 2000 lumens vs the XP's 160 so much brighter. 


 

[Muenchener]

I don't doubt for a moment that the Chinese Cree jobs are cheap and bright.

But - and I appreciate that I'm probably putting an irrational amount of faith in a brand name - I firmly believe that my Petzl isn't going to fail when I'm in the middle of rigging ab station 10 of 20 having got caught out in the dark, thereby causing me to spend a night on a tiny stance and possibly killing me. The Chinese lamp might not either, but I don't *know* that yet.

This is a slightly different scenario than having a lamp pack in whilst running or biking and having to walk home.

[andyd]

tikka for when you need a bit of light, cree for when you need lots.  not convinced about black diamond. I've only ever heard complaints (apart from above mention) that it's not as good as the petzl.

[nai]

I don't doubt for a moment that the Chinese Cree jobs are cheap and bright.

But - and I appreciate that I'm probably putting an irrational amount of faith in a brand name - I firmly believe that my Petzl isn't going to fail when I'm in the middle of rigging ab station 10 of 20 having got caught out in the dark, thereby causing me to spend a night on a tiny stance and possibly killing me. The Chinese lamp might not either, but I don't *know* that yet.

This is a slightly different scenario than having a lamp pack in whilst running or biking and having to walk home.

Agree I wouldn't go into a situation like that either, there's also warnings about discharging the batteries fully screwing them up and of overcharging (a friend of a friend's set alight when he left it on charge too long - could be a one-off of course), so a few reasons for concern.  But Will wants it for lamp sessions at grit outcrops and doesn't want to spend a fortune so it seems a decent option for that.  The model I bought isn't rechargable so no concerns about setting the house alight at least.

[galpinos]

I've a BD Spot and would second dunnyg's comments. It's also in cool colours.  I'd also echo Meunchener's comments that the reason I bought and  use it is I trust it.

However, for the usage you've highlighted, Alpkit or the cheap Cree lights of eBay will give you far more bang (lumens) for your buck and you could I through loafs of them for the price of a Petzl/BD.

There are quite a few good reviews online that actually show the amount of light cast, the other channel did an ok one but I think it was Outdoorsmagic that dos the most comprehensive.

[Paul B]

For rechargeable-everything buy Eneloop type AA batteries and use them in everything. They're very cheap now.

Petzel Tikka/Tikkinas have a bit of a design flaw in that if you knock them, the light party of the torch can detach from the headband. During climbing this could be a problem (more of an inconvenience if bouldering).

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I'm not opposed to sending off the headtorch for repair to Lyon (UK Petzl distributor i think?) but it could be expensive and technically infeasible.

Same thing happened to mine and I contacted Lyon who responded as follows:

Thank you for your email. I’m sorry to hear of the problems with your Myo XP.

With regret, I am unable to offer comprehensive advice without a full inspection, which I am quite happy to do. A repair is unlikely, due to the sealed nature of the unit, but replacement under warranty a possibility. However, for your Myo XP to be under warranty, it needs to be within a 3 year period from the date of purchase.

While I understand that it may be difficult for you to verify this date with a receipt, I would draw your attention to the “date wheel” on the back of the head of the torch (see image).  This imprint will indicate the year and month of manufacture.

Given that it may take several months for an item to clear the delivery and storage prior to purchase, we assess each return on a case-by-case basis and endeavour to be very fair in this respect.

However, you need to be aware that the normal course of action is to return it to your retailer, as they may choose to replace it, or forward it onto us at their expense. If you return the product to Lyon Equipment, inspection will be carried out under the manufacturer's warranty, but as the product has not been directly purchased from Lyon, we cannot refund your postage. If the torch is found to be defective and covered by the warranty the product is usually exchanged with no cash alternative, or occasionally repaired if this is appropriate.
 

If it's less than three years old you may be in luck for a replacement. Mine wasn't so dismantled it myself but gave up and bought a new one when I saw how little could be user serviced.

Shame for an expensive torch. It would be hard to justify another Petzl when the CC crees are 1/10th the price, I think I'd either buy two or more cheap ones and carry a spare or if you can't justify the weight and need to rely on it get another Petzl or quality chinese one like a LED Lenser. The Petzl industrial ones are more bulky and expensive but undoubtedly tougher.

[psychomansam]

Just in case you decide you want to blow some money on something awesome, this is what I'll be fell-running with tonight:
http://www.flashaholics.co.uk/zebralight/zebralight-h600w-mkii.html

[SA Chris]

I don't doubt for a moment that the Chinese Cree jobs are cheap and bright.

But - and I appreciate that I'm probably putting an irrational amount of faith in a brand name - I firmly believe that my Petzl isn't going to fail when I'm in the middle of rigging ab station 10 of 20 having got caught out in the dark, thereby causing me to spend a night on a tiny stance and possibly killing me.

Given what Will has described he uses it for, this doesn't look like a likely scenario. The Cree I've got for my bike has a headtorch mounting option, and it's brilliant for general use as Will described, even though the cable and battery pack make it a bit awkward.

[Will Hunt]

Thanks for the info everyone.

I've plumped for an Alpkit Viper one. At £14 delivered you can't really argue. If it's shit then I'll just chalk it up to experience and feedback here. For what I need it for it doesn't need to be mega-reliable and superbright, but the spot feature is useful for spotting footholds when lamping. Most of the mainstream brands are asking for more than double that (16xfuck-all for the BD Spot <> fuck all!)

That's very useful info about the Myo XP fault. When I spoke to Lyon on the phone I told them I didn't have a receipt so couldn't confirm when I'd bought it and they didn't mention anything about the date stamp! I will check it but am almost certain it is more than 3 years old.

[Paul B]

I bought the original Alpkit headtorch, apart from being a bit heavy by the time I came to replace it, I never had a single problem with it and it was plenty bright enough for my needs.

[Will Hunt]

I bought the original Alpkit headtorch, apart from being a bit heavy by the time I came to replace it, I never had a single problem with it and it was plenty bright enough for my needs.

Come to think of it my mate had one of those headtorches and lent it to James Pearson when he onsighted Deathwatch so they can't have been too bad!

[andyd]

I bought the original Alpkit headtorch, apart from being a bit heavy by the time I came to replace it, I never had a single problem with it and it was plenty bright enough for my needs.

Come to think of it my mate had one of those headtorches and lent it to James Pearson when he onsighted Deathwatch so they can't have been too bad!

Yes. Iimagine was the torch that got him up there. Either that or he's immensely talented.

[danm]

Last thread on this was back in 2008 so worth something new since the market will have moved on.

My Myo XP has given up (known fault of cable connection to lamp box) and it is out of warranty. Really like the torch but was perhaps over specced for what I need it for (lamp sessions, late walk outs, the odd night trad lark, going into the loft) and cost something like 60 sheets which is more than I'd like to spend this time round.

I'm not opposed to sending off the headtorch for repair to Lyon (UK Petzl distributor i think?) but it could be expensive and technically infeasible.

Any recommendations?

If you can find the date wheel on the Myo, see if it is less than 5 years old. When I used to work for Lyon we 'd usually make an allowance for up to 5 years from date of manufacture for warranty claims, to allow for time sat in the shop and distribution chain. Unless the torch has been obviously abused and is over 5 years old, you've got a fair chance - the Myo XP cable/battery box interface was always rather flawed. It isn't repairable like the good old Zoom, of which I must have repaired several hundred. I'm probably biased but I still rate Petzl's torches in general well above anything from BD or Alpkit.

[tomtom]

I've one of the original alpkit ones and it still works OK, but you can tell the LED's are a bit dated as its a bit dimmer than the newer offerings.

I also have one of their new range ones (with the powerful LED in the middle) from about 3 years back. Sadly the plastic around the case at the back broke when changing a battery (actually I was pinching one for my cordless mouse) meaning the lid no longer stays on.. looked like a bit of a design flaw to me. still it was £15 instead of £50...

I'll probably get one of those ebay jobs Nai was talking about - can't go too far wrong for a fiver...

Hijacking the thread a little - I have one of those new Alpkit jetboil copies.. works really well - though the jetboil bit feels a little flimsy - and whilst it packs small I suspect it will rattle about a bit and eventually scratch the inside of the mug when packed up. But for the number of times I use it (brewing up at the crag - rather than a life saving brew at 3000m on an alpine bivvi etc..) its perfect and £35 vs £100 etc... easy choice.. Happy to post up a larger review if anyone is interested...

[Johnny Brown]

dismantled it myself but gave up and bought a new one when I saw how little could be user serviced.[\quote]

That's weird, I repaired mine myself with little bother. I found a video on YouTube showing how to upgrade the led which was helpful, but basically it was a case of finding which end of the cable was corroded any the shortening it a bit. Works fine still, though it's now my back up and I use a Nao. Nice piece of kit, lighter than they look, will charge off the lighter socket in the car, but I wouldn't have bought one if I didn't have a trade account with Lyon.

[nai]

I'll probably get one of those ebay jobs Nai was talking about - can't go too far wrong for a fiver...

tenner. 1FA = £2.50, non?

Just waiting for the gremlins to permit a chance to try out it's 7500 lumen big brother on a night-time mtb jaunt, bought it back in October but had pranged myself before it arrived.  Now that's a bright light.

[tomtom]

£5 on ebay inc postage...

[nai]

Ok, it seems:
around £5 only gets you 500-800 lumens.
around £10 gets you 1800-2000 lumens.
£15 gets you 4000-5000
£20 = 6000
etc

I guess there's a limit to the amount you need when using a headtorch for climbing a rock right in front of your face.  Not sure the greedy chub I caught the other night was happy to have 1800 shone at it from 2ft while I tried to disgorge the hook from deep in it's mouth.

[psychomansam]

Ok, it seems:
around £5 only gets you 500-800 lumens.
around £10 gets you 1800-2000 lumens.
£15 gets you 4000-5000
£20 = 6000
etc

I guess there's a limit to the amount you need when using a headtorch for climbing a rock right in front of your face.  Not sure the greedy chub I caught the other night was happy to have 1800 shone at it from 2ft while I tried to disgorge the hook from deep in it's mouth.

Just bear in mind those numbers are very very Chinese. False advertising isn't a real thing there yet presumably?

[Johnny Brown]

That's the great thing about the Nao - automatic dimming when you look at a map. Or a chub.

[galpinos]

That's the great thing about the Nao - automatic dimming when you look at a map. Or a chub.

I’d read mixed reports on the auto dimming of the Nao, from “it’s excellent” to “it really pisses me off”.

So, is it good when nav-ing in the dark (I’m thinking running), say descending (ab-ing) at night and have you tried it when it’s raining/snowing? I thought the rain/snow falling might make it dim when it shouldn’t.

Any thoughts?

[tomtom]

That's the great thing about the Nao - automatic dimming when you look at a map. Or a chub.

Yup - but for £100 vs £10 I could live without auto dimming...

[psychomansam]

That's the great thing about the Nao - automatic dimming when you look at a map. Or a chub.

I’d read mixed reports on the auto dimming of the Nao, from “it’s excellent” to “it really pisses me off”.

So, is it good when nav-ing in the dark (I’m thinking running), say descending (ab-ing) at night and have you tried it when it’s raining/snowing? I thought the rain/snow falling might make it dim when it shouldn’t.

Any thoughts?

I also hear slightly mixed reports though I know a couple of fell runners who are happy enough with them. When I was shopping in this budgets range, I decided against the Nao since the Zebralight linked above is:

roughly the same price or cheaper
twice as powerful
simpler design with less to go wrong
uses the same (18650) battery but without a proprietary bit of plastic around it, meaning that:
A) the torch is more compact
B) spare batteries cost a quarter of the price
C) you can purchase higher capacity/quality batteries as the tech arrives

[SA Chris]

That's the great thing about the Nao - automatic dimming when you look at a map. Or a chub.

Yup - but for £100 vs £10 I could live without auto dimming...

My Cree has manual dimming, fucking bright, stupidly bright, bright. And strobelight. STROOBELIIGHT!

[Johnny Brown]

Most of the time it just seems to work. When running in snow or chuffing hard it occasionally dims due to stuff floating past the sensor, but it's more a reminder that it works than a bother.

I made the mistake of plugging into the management software which gave a frankly baffling variety of options. The basic switch always gives you the simple choice of high, low, or 'active' though, what you can change is where each of those is pegged.

Like I said, I get them cheap though.

[horn]

That's the great thing about the Nao - automatic dimming when you look at a map. Or a chub.

I’d read mixed reports on the auto dimming of the Nao, from “it’s excellent” to “it really pisses me off”.

So, is it good when nav-ing in the dark (I’m thinking running), say descending (ab-ing) at night and have you tried it when it’s raining/snowing? I thought the rain/snow falling might make it dim when it shouldn’t.

Any thoughts?

Absolutely love the Nao - the auto dimming is really useful, previously I was constntly jabbing at the button to cycle through the power outputs which is pretty bloody hard with a Myo XP and ludicrously fat fingers. Yes it does get triggered by heavy snow and heavy breathing in cold air, but I don't find this a problem - without dimming the glare would dazzle you, and it helps with getting a useful battery life out of it. You can manually over-ride the dim setting, but you'll only get an hour and a half on full power like that. With the dimming I get about 6 or 7 hours on max.
They are really bloody expensive at full price though (I get them cheap too)

Tikka RXP is also really good, a lot more compact, not quite as bright, still pretty pricey.

USB rechargeable lithium batteries are ace if you're out a lot. I've saved a small fortune in batteries since getting the nao (reckon i would have spent close to £100 on AAs over the winter if I'd kept using my MYO).

Cheapo option for Will would be a fairly dim headtorch to wear while climbing (really doesn't matter that much whether you get a Petzl Tikka/Black Diamond Spot/Alpkit, you don't need it too bright to illuminate the rock in front of you, and if it's dim the battery will last ages - constant output is well worth having though) plus a CREE or whatever rechargable spotlight/bikelight/headtorch thing off ebay that you can leave on the ground and point at the crag. We've had some good trad sessions at Electric Quarry with a couple of 1600 lumen bikelights tied to the fence.

[Luthor]

All my night runs have been done with an LED Lenser, which I have found very good.

Another vote for the LED Lenser. The H7R is significantly brighter than the Alpkit torch I used before. About 35/40 quid for the rechargeable model and has adjustable brightness and beam. Most of the people I run with have switched to these now.

[Will Hunt]

Andyd had a Cree at Caley the other night. Fuck me, it was brighter than the sun. Used that as a ground lamp at times whilst wearing a dimmer headtorch.

[Mike Tyson]

Was reading the IT bargains thread, which took me to Amazon where I noticed the Cree headteacher sitting in my basket had drastically dropped in price.

Stock up now before winter returns.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00SFCLIK6?vs=1

[SA Chris]

Holy crap, does she do domination?

[tomtom]

The cheapest has a high p+p charge (£6?) with only. 90% seller rating (shipped from China). For prime members there is the same for £10.60 shipped from uk etc...

[tomtom]

Great spot btw Mike. [emoji106]

[Mike Tyson]

That's a hell of an auto correct!