[gme]

Is this an important exercise ?

I can barely do one on bars and nowhere near on rings, in fact i am so shit at them that the only reason to attempt them is to give others something to laugh at. So I am interested in if its worth working on them as it seems to be an obvious weakness of mine.

I have a limited amount of time to do conditioning stuff so I might as well focus on the stuff that has the biggest effect on my climbing. I am also shit at one arm lock offs (cant do one on a bar) but this seems an obvious thing to work on as it crosses over to climbing, where as dips doesn't.


Thoughts please?

[a dense loner]

Don't bother, they're really good for mantles that's about it related to climbing. If you can't do them they'll take a lot out of you and you won't have enough energy for the 3 moon boards you train on 

[Moo]

If your shit at locking off on a bar dips will help as it directly trains the antagonistic muscle which is possibly whats letting you down.

In other words yes, start by doing half dips and progress deeper each session as you feel able to.

I wouldn't say your shit at dips its just an exercise that you haven't tried much because you find it hard. It won't make you climb three letter grades harder but it won't make you worse either.

Also try negatives for improving lock off strength (step up and hang in a fully locked position then let yourself down as slowly and in control as possible all the way to the bottom palms out - repeat) Progrees to one arm negatives if you find these really easy.

[Oldmanmatt]

Don't bother, they're really good for mantles that's about it related to climbing. If you can't do them they'll take a lot out of you and you won't have enough energy for the 3 moon boards you train on 

Yeah...

But....

They are the most obvious exercise for your (antagonist) Tricep.

They are useful for developing/maintaining shoulder stability.

Press ups could be a less specific substitute.

It's hard to argue against, at least, building up to being able to do two or three dips.
That won't take long, if you start by doing them with your feet supported (but not loaded, ie, between two chairs).
Couple of minutes, every other day?
Throw in ten/twenty Press ups at the end of every board session and you'll be a "God Damned Sexual Tyrannosaurus" with a couple of months....

[Muenchener]

They are useful for developing/maintaining shoulder stability.

+1

I found at times when I did a lot of pull ups, my shoulders got sore pretty quickly. When I did equal amounts of pull ups and dips my shoulders were fine.

[a dense loner]

They are the most obvious exercise for your tricep but I figured Gav didn't want tricep slabs, I'd put press ups first for antagonist stuff. As in dips are harder to get into, take more out of you physically. They are excellent stabilisers, but not if you can only do 3!

With relation to climbing, as an example, last time someone was going on about dips being amazing, possibly 3mths ish ago possibly in fight (power) club. I thought I've not done dips for years. Went to virgin, did a load of t-rex stuff then did 23 dips, stopped cos I was bored, backhanded the girlfriend and strolled into the sauna naked with an erection. Ok the last 2 may or may not have happened like some peoples ticks at a comp where you judge yourself. The point I'm trying to make is Gav's seen me climb and I can do loads of dips, do you want to put the effort in for dips and still climb like me?

[Oldmanmatt]

I'd say an inability to do any dips, speaks of a weakness and that means potential for injury.

Topping out/manteling is part of climbing, something that tends to happen at the wrong (tired) end of a Bloc/route and fairly unavoidable.

Press ups don't quite hit the mark, for the shoulders.

There has to be a good argument for maintaining some balance in the muscle chains of the arms, for both Elbows and shoulders.

The difference in injury potential between not being able to do any dips and doing two or three, is immense.

No, cranking out a thousand one arm dips in a 10 kg weight vest is probably pointless (though I'd definitely buy you a pint, for sheer awesomeness).

[cowboyhat]

[Sloper]

yes, they're excellent, try also doing square leg raises when your arms are locked out, dipping with your legs out then lowering your legs, rising and repeat.

Also try dips with your palms out, brutal but very good for those weird moves

[Sasquatch]

Is this an important exercise ?

I can barely do one on bars and nowhere near on rings, in fact i am so shit at them that the only reason to attempt them is to give others something to laugh at. So I am interested in if its worth working on them as it seems to be an obvious weakness of mine.

I have a limited amount of time to do conditioning stuff so I might as well focus on the stuff that has the biggest effect on my climbing. I am also shit at one arm lock offs (cant do one on a bar) but this seems an obvious thing to work on as it crosses over to climbing, where as dips doesn't.

Thoughts please?

I feel like they are important, and are much more climbing related than pressups.  When you do a deep lock (hand below shoulder) you engage the tricep extensively to continue that push.  Dips are perfect for this.  I know that I do this type of movement quite often when climbing.

[hstmoore]

When you talk about shoulder stability what exactly do you mean?

I find that my shoulders and neck tend to be a bit hunched forward, and think ths is leading to pain in my shoulders - is having good shoulder stability something that corrects posture?

[Oldmanmatt]

When you talk about shoulder stability what exactly do you mean?

I find that my shoulders and neck tend to be a bit hunched forward, and think ths is leading to pain in my shoulders - is having good shoulder stability something that corrects posture?

Really, it's about strengthening ALL of the shoulder muscles, including those under the superficial (bulging) muscles that you see. Muscles like the Rotator cuff and others that are responsible for holding the joint together and in alignment.









If you have posture issues, it is entirely possible that you need to balance out the strength around the joint.
Climbing works the back more than the front (over simplification) of the shoulder joint, pulling it out of alignment.
This is why it's so important to work/build/strengthen the Antagonist muscles (those that perform the opposite action to the ones mainly engaged in climbing).

See how the Bicep heads pull across the joint? And how the Tricep heads counter that?
Over developing one, puts too much stress on the joint.
If you can do 10 pull ups, but no dips; you have a poorly loaded joint and it's going to get injured.

[fatdoc]

 

Though my chuffed wrists make me avoid dips, wish I could do em for balence.

Press ups do help, IMHO. But I'd prefer to get better at dips.

[hstmoore]

Great answer, thanks.

[a dense loner]

What a strange thing, people saying dips are good yet poo-pooing rings on the other thread. I can't get my head around it, bizarre

[Oldmanmatt]

What a strange thing, people saying dips are good yet poo-pooing rings on the other thread. I can't get my head around it, bizarre

Not me ! 😉

[Moo]

Nor I, Dense it's also worth pointing out that your ability to lock off on a bar is good, and you can do loads of dips. So if someone says they aren't good at doing dips and struggles to lock off on a bar perhaps we can build some correlation between the two   

[a dense loner]

You've spelt exceptional wrong 

I spoke to glassback about this earlier and did point out that it might be a case of someone being able to do something and saying it's no use since he can do it, much as I thought when I was saying that all the good/best climbers have very good hip mobility yet claim to not be flexible. Strange thing training, takes all sorts I suppose

[rodma]

Can we step back a minute. Of climbing mainly works the back muscles, this pulling the shoulder out of alignment we'd all have exaggeratedly pulled-back shoulders, but we don't, we're mostly rounded like vultures.

There are many exercises and regimes that can help address the imbalance, but you need to know what is causing the imbalance in the first place. There is no single golden bullet exercise that you can just get your head down and get on with that will stabilise your shoulders, if they are indeed unbalanced to start with.

Some people have very tight pecs and doing pressups can help to release release them, thus slightly correcting posture. That doesn't mean that after 20 weeks of doing pressups the situation will improve further, you may actually tighten and knot the buggers right up again.

Just take it easy folks, always analyse what you are doing and why (if ) it is having any impact on you.

I realise you probably all do that anyway,  but I haven't half received some shit advice over the years.

[Oldmanmatt]

Hence my "oversimplification" caveat...

[TheTwig]

Dips are incredible for overall shoulder stability and pure strength. If you really are struggling that much with them even on say parallel bars or paralettes and it's not a body composition thing then you really should get into them as you are lacking any strength/stability in that plane of motion. Once you can do dips and if you have access to rings try and do muscle-ups on a regular basis. They are absolutely brutal and amazing for shoulders/core.

Fittest I've ever been (And some of the best bouldering I've done) was when I was doing fairly regular gymnastics exercises on rings/floor, at one point I could do 7 muscle-ups in a row in a strict L sit 

[gme]

Lots of conflicting answers there. I am aware that dips would be good as an overall shoulder stability thing to prevent injury but in 30 years of climbing and training a lot i have never had any problems with shoulders or elbows. My posture isnt great but its not that bad really.

I am more interested in whether my total inability to do dips is holding back my climbing. The mantling thing isn't an issue, i think thats all technique, but my lock of strength is and wondering whether the dips thing is connected.

Looking at my climbing now and in the past i have always been poor at press moves and really deep locks. I could do one armers but, unlike most, found the top of the movement (getting my chin over my hand) much harder than the lower (straight arm- hand to forehead height). Poor on campus board (1.4.7 occasionally) and found no difference in performance between the biggest and smallest rungs.

As we never really did any rings or core stuff years ago its only now i have become aware how utterly shit I am at dips and was wondering if there is a connection.

[gme]

[/quote]
I feel like they are important, and are much more climbing related than pressups.  When you do a deep lock (hand below shoulder) you engage the tricep extensively to continue that push.  Dips are perfect for this.  I know that I do this type of movement quite often when climbing.
[/quote]

This seems the only comment that suggests a link. Are they a part of your training? Do you just do standard dips or other things to work the same muscles.

[lagerstarfish]

[fatneck]

Saw lagers had posted and got excited that he'd somehow shoehorned a tahini/cheese and chive reference into the thread...