[Will Hunt]

Based on Bonjoy's recent advice on hold stabilisation in this thread - http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,16830.msg463723.html#msg463723 - I thought this might be a useful thread to have going.

The Classic Dyno on the Calf - very popular, classic as they come, great handfuls of grit coming off the finishing jug with every go. Definitely needs action.

Whalebak - Had a quick play on this today and I suspect somebody may have treated the starting pocket as it seemed fairly solid today. The crack-cum-break is difficult to reach but could do with some help. Not sure if its feasible to treat a large area or what the effect might be on friction? Care maybe required.

[lagerstarfish]

The Classic Dyno on the Calf - very popular, classic as they come, great handfuls of grit coming off the finishing jug with every go. Definitely needs action.

the one that uased to be known as Bonnington's Potty?

like this, but less tilted?

[Will Hunt]

Quite possibly. Don't really recognise the moves in that picture. It's now just a sideways dyno off two crimps to a huge jug.

[stokesy]

That's the one, I think the non-eliminate version get's referred to as Bonington's book problem (in ref. to the picture below) in some guides. I'd agree with Will that some stabilising before the jug hold starts to disintegrate completely might be good, everytime I caught the hold last year my hand would end up full of scrittle. Only problem would be that you'd probably need the frequently present pool in the hold to dry out first.

[daprince]

New Jerusalem unless someone has already had a go.

Swing Arete at Brimham the first foot hold is super sandy.

[Adam Lincoln]

The Crack at Bowden now has a massive foothold at the start. Too late to protect now but has got big in last few months. Maybe worth coating the other bits before its font 7a!

[DaveyDave]

I remember longbow at Brimham being sandy too

[Will Hunt]

Please quote this list in future posts and use strikethrough if you go and fix it. If you're going to treat a hold, please check that it is still in need of treatment before doing the work.

YORKSHIRE
Caley
- New Jerusalem

Ilkely
- Classic Dyno (AKA Bonnington's Book Problem)

Brimham
- Swing Arete
- Longbow

Simon's Seat
- Whaleback/Whalebak


NORTHUMBERLAND
Bowden
- The Crack

[nathanie1]

had a look at Fantasy League at Brimham a few months back and the starting foot hold looked particularly sandy and worn.   

[Will Hunt]

Please quote this list in future posts and use strikethrough if you go and fix it. If you're going to treat a hold, please check that it is still in need of treatment before doing the work.

YORKSHIRE
Caley
- New Jerusalem

Ilkely
- Classic Dyno (AKA Bonnington's Book Problem)

Brimham
- Swing Arete
- Longbow
- Fantasy League

Simon's Seat
- Whaleback/Whalebak


NORTHUMBERLAND
Bowden
- The Crack

[rootask]

In my mind the crack on whaleback isn't really a candidate for this type of stabilisation. It's certainly sandy but so is the rest of the boulder, and there's the issue of where you stop. Happy to hear other thoughts on this but I don't think this problem is at the stage where it needs work, nor does it get the traffic to take it there anytime soon.

[Will Hunt]

Sorry Ru, should qualify. I would think the starting pocket and maybe the starting left hand foothold would be candidates, although last time I was there the pocket seemed a lot more stable - still that funny orange colour though.
I agree that the top crack isn't really feasible to treat as its a large area, and not as many people who try that problem actually end up touching the crack.

I wouldn't underestimate the popularity of Simon's Seat though. Last few times I've been the car park has been full on arrival with cars that visibly belong to climbers (Depot stickers etc). Everyone gravitates onto McNab and the problems on Simon's.

[turnipturned]

Wow, not sure if this is going in the right direction.

Fantasy league maybe a very good boulder, but it always has and always will be a sandy choss pile.
Whaleback- kind of agree with Ru. Maybe if people clean there boots that might help
New Jerusalem- Already been stabilised not sure what more you could do or whether it helped?
Classic Dyno- I would imagine it just needs a clean, if its not full manly piss water.

I think there is a bit of difference between problems that just need a bit of a clean and problems that need "stabilising'

[Will Hunt]

I'm a complete noob at this Dan but was taking the lead from Bonjoy who is quite experienced in this area and who promotes stabilising quite happily (see thread in OP) and who is clear that there is not really any chance of damaging the rock by doing this if it is done properly.

I've not been on Fantasy League so can't comment on the particular hold, but if its always been sandy that doesn't necessarily mean that it should remain that way. Bouldering gets more popular every day and these problems with dodgy holds will only last so long without a little careful proactive maintenance.

If NJ has been done then it can come off the list. Classic Dyno is fucked. Its like the patina has come off and it's very crumbly now.

[Will Hunt]

Please quote this list in future posts and use strikethrough if you go and fix it. If you're going to treat a hold, please check that it is still in need of treatment before doing the work.

YORKSHIRE
Caley
- New Jerusalem

Ilkely
- Classic Dyno (AKA Bonnington's Book Problem)

Brimham
- Swing Arete
- Longbow
- Fantasy League

Simon's Seat
- Whaleback/Whalebak


NORTHUMBERLAND
Bowden
- The Crack

[Bonjoy]

Sorry about the brief and general reply (am super busy atm). As a rule it's neither practical nor desirable to treat large areas (using superglue anyway). Sometimes there are particular points of vulnerability on on large sandy holds which can usefully be treated though. To avoid a sharp boundary between sandy and unsandy I sometimes apply as 'dots' with spaces in between, obviously this doesn't completely stop the scrittle but is sometimes the best option. It's a case case by case thing so I can't be super specific without standing in front of the probs in question. So far it doesn't sound like anyone is going OTT. As you seem to be doing already, it makes sense to start with the worse cases and progress back from there. And practice on bits of rock on the ground first.

[rootask]

Sorry Ru, should qualify. I would think the starting pocket and maybe the starting left hand foothold would be candidates, although last time I was there the pocket seemed a lot more stable - still that funny orange colour though.
I agree that the top crack isn't really feasible to treat as its a large area, and not as many people who try that problem actually end up touching the crack.

I wouldn't underestimate the popularity of Simon's Seat though. Last few times I've been the car park has been full on arrival with cars that visibly belong to climbers (Depot stickers etc). Everyone gravitates onto McNab and the problems on Simon's.

Yeah I'd definitely agree with the foothold, if it ever went it'd probably make the problem a lot harder and a lot less good.

[turnipturned]

I'm a complete noob at this Dan but was taking the lead from Bonjoy who is quite experienced in this area and who promotes stabilising quite happily (see thread in OP) and who is clear that there is not really any chance of damaging the rock by doing this if it is done properly.

I've not been on Fantasy League so can't comment on the particular hold, but if its always been sandy that doesn't necessarily mean that it should remain that way. Bouldering gets more popular every day and these problems with dodgy holds will only last so long without a little careful proactive maintenance.

If NJ has been done then it can come off the list. Classic Dyno is fucked. Its like the patina has come off and it's very crumbly now.

Sorry probably came across wrong, all for stabilising certain holds on specific problems, but if you try and stabilise the likes of Fantasy league, I feel it could just end up looking a bit of mess!

I think it would also be worth while writing which problems could do with a clean.  I will start with Pinky at Brimham, on that note it may interest someone that wants to try and repeat the now broken sit!

p.s. Good job with Caley clean up, sorry I couldn't make it. 

[Will Hunt]

I think there's a thread for that. If not there should be!
Most of Nought Bank needs TLC I reckon. Wanted to do Pok-a-Tok over the summer (note: ffs don't go to nought bank in summer) and the top was fucked with mud and algae etc. Needs digging.

[nathanie1]

Sorry probably came across wrong, all for stabilising certain holds on specific problems, but if you try and stabilise the likes of Fantasy league, I feel it could just end up looking a bit of mess!

To clarify, I was only suggesting that the starting foothold may need some TLC, as it looks like something from Bridestones. I suppose it's likely that it could be easily climbed without using it anyway. 

[Will Hunt]

Not really the right place for this.
Was out bimbling at Almscliff with a friend who hasn't climbed before this evening and noticed that the key flake crimp thing that you use to pull yourself onto the starting ledge of low man easy way/stew pot is about to give up the ghost. I know this sounds like a joke post but it isn't!
Would it be worth fixing this? I ask only because this is, for many, their first step in climbing and getting onto that ledge is hard enough for beginners as it is. Without that hold I can imagine it being much trickier indeed.

[iwasmexican]

out of curiosity as well as not knowing where else to put it, did anyone on here try to repair the broken second RH edge on northern territory? as of last weekend its still under the problem largely intact but with a mess of glue over the back like someone tried and failed to fix it...

[Greg C]

I agree with Turner, there's plenty of stuff like Fantasy League and The Grouch which are just sandy and it is not practical to go wading in with chemicals. You either have to accept they're sandy or not climb them if it's that much of an issue to you.

As a more general point, by putting this thread up in the first place you are potentially giving license to (possibly well meaning) people who have no idea what they're doing to go slapping wood hardener and super glue all over the place.

I'm not against gluing or stabilizing holds, but the ethics of such endeavors are, like using a wire brush, hazy and depend very much on an area, the rock type and the common sense/experience of the individual doing the 'work'. I don't think web threads read by the silent masses are the best place for promoting such practices?

Personally, at the very least, I'd re-name this thread title.

[tomtom]

Technical question probably best here for the rock stabiliser experts! It's not climbing, but MrsTT's gate to her back yard has hinges set in a nice lump of sandstone - that's unfortunately weathering (see pic). I was wondering how / if to stabilise this before it got any worse. Options include superglue on the face (to give it a patina) and/or cement over the top to give more protection and maybe to strengthen it a bit. Neither seems ideal to me. At the moment it's solid (no wobbling) but it's not going to last forever as it is...

[lagerstarfish]

drill and glue a couple of pins then use whatever repair concrete/filler is compatible with soft sandstone

I'm not a doctor or a stone conservator etc.

[tomtom]

drill and glue a couple of pins then use whatever repair concrete/filler is compatible with soft sandstone

I'm not a doctor or a stone conservator etc.

Was wondering whether the face to be filled would need any stabilising/firming up or if its a case of just cleaning it off etc...

[dave]

Dunno if anyone from the north east reads this, but the very first foothold on the slab start bit of Northern Soul at Hepburn has worn through the patina to the softer pale rock, and could do with some TLC. Be a shame for this problem to go the way of most of the classics at bowden etc.

[Eddies]

Your gate gudgeon has corroded and expanded, causing the stone to shatter (oxide jacking). The only way to fix it long term is the remove all corrosion and re-protect it before resin fixing the stone back on... If you simply fix the stone back it won't last long.

[tomtom]

Thanks Eddies. That (unfortunately) sounds like quite a lot of grief... There is no bit that fell off - unfortunately. I guess resin coating would need to be done all the way around the pin - otherwise it'll just squeeze it out anyway...

[Eddies]

You can buy a 'rust converter' which is applied to the corroded metalwork using a brush and converts the rust into a protective barrier!
I've never used the stuff but for a job that small its worth a shot.

[tomtom]

You can buy a 'rust converter' which is applied to the corroded metalwork using a brush and converts the rust into a protective barrier!
I've never used the stuff but for a job that small its worth a shot.

Yeah - its basically phosphoric acid with something to make it thicker (and have a nicer colour). The problem is that I'd have to pull out the whole metal peg which would somewhat make the whole exercise far more diffucult than patch up whats there. Though, I think from the look of it the peg has been soldered in there - so surely that would not have corroded?

[Eddies]

Probably leaded in in the traditional manner. You could hear it up with a blow torch and do it properly or you could do a quick repair in-situ... Up to you

[tomtom]

Thanks Eddies if I wanted to do it in-situ - I guess clean up any loose stuff - then is it an idea to seal off the face at all (its quite soft) - and/or patch it with a load of cement/sand mix over it..

[Eddies]

Yeah, I'm not gee'd up on stonework but I'm sure with a bit of a search you can find something (prob another type of acid) that will seal the sandstone.