[mrjonathanr]

Could anyone recommend a softshell that's light and durable and good for cragging in? Under 400g might be good.

Oh and are there any that are broader in the shoulders? Most I've tried seem quite narrow, including Rab & Montane. Maybe Arcteryx , mountain Hardwear?

Thanks.

[Muenchener]

I recently bought a Black Diamond BDV jacket for multipitch climbing in cooler conditions. Pleased with it so far: good cut, robust, windproof but not too hot, decently showerproof (cycled home from the wall in it, 20 minutes in heavy rain, and it didn't wet through)

The cut is nicely trim on the torso but I find it roomy enough on the shoulders, unlike for example the Rab Vapour Rise.

[mrjonathanr]

Cheers I'll check that out.

[dave]

I'm a fan of the Rab vapour-rise stuff. Feels much less like cardboard compared to every other softshell I tried.

[T_B]

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/mens/mens-ferrosi-hoody-2.html

Outdoor Research Ferrosi Hoody is very nice for climbing in.


Depending on your size I could flog you one for £40.

[Johnny Brown]

I've had a couple of Rab softshells that fitted my broad shoulders and long arms well. Never quite lived up to my expectations though as they don't really add warmth.

However since I got an Arcteryx Atom Hoody I've never picked one up. Offers the same basic wind/ shower proofing but really warm too.

[Muenchener]

However since I got an Arcteryx Atom Hoody I've never picked one up. Offers the same basic wind/ shower proofing but really warm too.

I really rate the Atom LT Hoody too, but I'd find it too warm to climb in. I generally carry it as my belay /shit hits the fan layer on alpine rock routes.

[dave]

I've got one of those Atom jackets. It's very much an insulating/belay/standing around jacket, not a softshell (I.e. to be worn when active) IMHO.

[Johnny Brown]

Hmm, you guys are either a bit chubbier than me or climbing in warmer climes - for me it's not warm enough . unless I'm staying fairly active. I've got a Berghaus light duvet for alpine belays & descents/ Rab neutrino for scottish winter belays. I use my atom for soloing round here and rarely overheat. Usually just a t-shirt underneath. Caff has the same and wore it for all but the crux pitch on Longhope, I think thermal and t-shirt underneath, possibly thin fleece too:

[Muenchener]

I sweat more than Caff on the lead because I'm more scared. Duh.

[Paul B]

I've had a couple of Rab softshells that fitted my broad shoulders and long arms well. Never quite lived up to my expectations though as they don't really add warmth.

However since I got an Arcteryx Atom Hoody I've never picked one up. Offers the same basic wind/ shower proofing but really warm too.

The Arcy stuff is pretty damn good. I can't help but feel that the vapour-rise feels mildly out-dated (they're certainly not light) compared to other products on the market (this could just be me).

[Stu Littlefair]

The vapour rise trousers on the other hand are the best thing ever for days out grit bouldering.

[dave]

Hmm, you guys are either a bit chubbier than me or climbing in warmer climes - for me it's not warm enough . unless I'm staying fairly active. I've got a Berghaus light duvet for alpine belays & descents/ Rab neutrino for scottish winter belays. I use my atom for soloing round here and rarely overheat. Usually just a t-shirt underneath. Caff has the same and wore it for all but the crux pitch on Longhope, I think thermal and t-shirt underneath, possibly thin fleece too:

If the vapour rise aren't warm enough I can't see any other jackets conventionally referred to as a softshell, rather than an insulation layer, being any warmer. Softshells aren't supposed to be insulation layers. They're supposed to be a windproof halfway point between a fleece and a waterproof. Sounds like you just prefer to climb in an insulation layer. You nesh sod.

[Johnny Brown]

Yeah, I must admit I've never really got the point of softshells. I just wore them cos over people did. Worst of both worlds - looks like a fleece, but isn't warm, supposedly a 'shell' not really wind or shower proof. You can get a super thin shell that is more wind and rain proof and keep it in your fleece pocket. Or summat like the Atom.

Guess it depends where JR is going 'cragging'.

[lagerstarfish]

They're supposed to be a windproof halfway point between a fleece and a waterproof.

like Ultrafleece (RIP)?

[dave]

I think that's why I like the rab stuff. Totally windproof, but cost of the lining it wicks moisture away like a bastard so they're wearable across a good range of temps. And keeps a fair bit of rain off, and is still reasonably comfy when soaked.

Only downside is cos of the lining can be hard to get your arms in the sleeves depending what you're w

[Stubbs]

The vapour rise trousers on the other hand are the best thing ever for days out grit bouldering.

You must have impeccable technique to wear such pricey trousers, I need something where I can get my knees/hips/bum involved without the risk of ripping them!

[Johnny Brown]

There's something about technical trousers on grit boulder problems that's deeply tragic.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I used to frickin love my ME Ultra fleece. Wore it constantly back in the day, even occasionally with my Stone Monkey climbing 'tights' which were coincidentally the identical shade of turquoise.     Much to CLM's amusement.

[galpinos]

Yeah, I must admit I've never really got the point of softshells.

They used to be a highly wicking, insulating and weatherproof shell that replaced a fleece and a waterproof and that you would put on in the morning and kept on all day, a.k.a pile/pertex or the buffalo tops. Patagonia copied them but made them look less shit (the Mixmaster was my favourite ever jacket) and now we've ended up with a market full of jackets that look good in the pub but barely function on the hill.

For proper routes I wear an ME Ultratherm, looks like a shell suit top but works great.

[Muenchener]

My ME Ultrafleece is still in service, albeit pretty much relegated to gardenng / outdoor DIY type activities these days. One of those over a buffalo and you could survive anything anywhere.

Got it cheap in the old factory shop in Glossop - must be one of the best 20 quids I ever spent.

[lagerstarfish]

look good in the pub but barely function on the hill.

sounds familiar

[Stu Littlefair]

There's something about technical trousers on grit boulder problems that's deeply tragic.

Thanks for the fashion tip.

If you could enlighten me further, what is it about a whole day out on the moors, often in very cold weather, during which you spend most of your time doing nothing active that makes a warm pair of trousers such a tragic and unsuitable choice?

[abarro81]

They make you look like a Spanish punter. That's the problem. Especially if they're grey and black.

[Stu Littlefair]

So they're just tragic full stop, as opposed to tragic on grit? I can live with that.

[Johnny Brown]

Yeah, though you can get away with them in an alpine couloir.

during which you spend most of your time doing nothing active

I thought you said you were bouldering? Are you that bad on slopers?

[lagerstarfish]

ah, I see

I thought it was because wearing such garments on grit was a sign that the wearer has lost too much weight to be consodered healthy and/or attractive

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks for all the replies, quite informative.

I want something which I can climb in without overheating then sit on a windy Gogarth belay without shivering whilst my second leads through. Or just get to the top of Hen Cloud and not feel instantly hypothermic.

And I get some fashion tips and a video to boot. Cheers UKB 

Don't really care what it looks like down the pub. I don't drink.

[duncan]

Sounds like you mainly want a windproof.

Something like the Rab cirrus or Montane featherlight? Typically 100gm and packs to a size of an apple. Climb in your long-sleeve thermal (or light fleece if it's chilly) then put it on at the belay. Everyone climbing on sea-cliffs should have something like this.

If you want a bit more warmth, next step up is a pertex/microfleece combo. I've got a Montbel one, Rab VR lite is the equivalent - 250gm, small coke can size - lighter than the original VR but not as robust or warm.

The original VR - or Buffalo equivalent - is good for grovelling up chimneys, iced up or otherwise - but a quite heavy for proper rock climbing. You wouldn't tow one up Positron. In any case, a separate light fleece or thick thermal plus windproof as above has more temperature flexibility in my view.

If it is going to be a bit cold, or your crag is quite big like El Cap. or St John's Head, you want a thin synthetic like the dead bird thing above. I've got a MEC version that's even better <300gm and squashes down to about a pint. It's brilliant, warm, fairly windproof and still small enough to carry on your harness.

When your big crag suffers from afternoon thunderstorms like the Tre Cima, I've climbed in a proper waterproof. Modern thin Goretex or Neo whatsit is light and not sweaty. Tears easily and expensively, so not an everyday choice.

[Fiend]

Something like the Rab cirrus or Montane featherlight? Typically 100gm and packs to a size of an apple. Climb in your long-sleeve thermal (or light fleece if it's chilly) then put it on at the belay. Everyone climbing on sea-cliffs should have something like this.

Indispensible item, one of the very few bits of "proper" outdoor clothing I own. Combine it with a snood and beanie clipped to the same krab on your harness and it's the most warmth and flexibility for the least weight/size.

[mrjonathanr]

Some interesting ideas to check out, thanks all.

[Johnny Brown]

Good advice from Duncan there, although I'd say if you dress for St. Johns as you would El Cap... you're gonna freeze.

[erm, sam]

I am bias but the Mountain Equipment Ultratherm jacket is very good for this. Wind proof with a lightweight lining, with stretch panels up the sides and under the arms so it has a really trim fit and climbs well. Packs up small with a clip loop and is nice and light..
http://www.facewest.co.uk/Mountain-Equipment-Ultratherm-Jacket.html

[mrjonathanr]

Some good info on this thread. I'll be buying a light wind proof in due course I think, but opted for the OR Ferrosi: http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/mens-clothing-c1/mens-softshell-c95/softshell-jackets-c218/ferrosi-hoody-softshell-jacket-p3306

Free delivery within 72 hrs, great service.

[dr_botnik]

marmot driclimes are really good for the wind proof pertex with pile lining - which in my mind is the tits. quite light weight though, also they seem to have really narrow wrist bands that you cant adjust, not so good if you want to roll your sleeves up for a bit of ventilation and have trunks for arms. Overall though i usually find the marmot ones to be quite lightweight for a softshell, so good in warmer weather or when heavily active. They also come with a hood now so give a bit more versatility there. You'd probably need another jacket for belays if you're in a northern climate a massive fanny like me.