[Andy W]

I had some acupuncture from a physio, in another attempt to fix sore biceps, (tendonopathy is the problem they say). Anyhow I went training this evening without thinking too much about it and was pretty weak, anyone know if acupuncture would cause a general weakness in the treated muscle (bicep) after treatment and if so how long it would last? I'm not that convinced it would help so don't really want it to get in the way of my own treatment, ie head in the sand denial.

[Johnny Brown]

How long after was it? I've had it a load of times and mostly been impressed. There is some fairly robust evidence, it's not like homeopathy.

[Andy W]

I had the acupuncture this morning and went training this evening. In hindsight if you have a needle pushed 5cm into a bicep, it doesn't seem unlikely that it might have an effect on the workings of the muscle.

[fatdoc]

Too many negatives to understand....

But... You have some sort of spazzed bicep. You get some treatment.. And train the same day?

I'd have a bit of break from the likely causation of your need to spend money on rehab...

Cross train a bit (no, I'm not re starting the feckin running argument again), bit of rest. Do something else.. If you must climb... Very light sessions , preferably just climbing not training focused....

Give the acupuncturist a ring in the morning and ask how long you should avoid high intensity workouts??

[Johnny Brown]

You have some sort of spazzed bicep. You get some treatment.. And train the same day?

Crazy. After treatment, I've usually experienced ~36 hours of soreness worse than before followed by a similar period of improvement to a much better point than before treatment. So I wouldn't be stressing the affected at all for at least 3 days, let alone training. No wonder you're injured!

[tomtom]

Not for biceps but for elbows... via Slackline...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003527/abstract;jsessionid=FA885E35C7D62AE412BF1895C1382169.f04t03

[Johnny Brown]

Hmm. I've seen something far more supportive somewhere in the past. If massage is effective needling doesn't seem so removed. It's a long way from homoeopathy or kinesiology....

[JohnM]

I found the opposite.  I had acupuncture in my deltoid and trained the next day and my injured shoulder felt brutally strong like the muscle had been switched on again or something.  Of course I tested it with some one armers and tried loads of hard problems on the board and wrecked my shoulder like the true professional I am!

[SA Chris]

Not for biceps but for elbows... via Slackline...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003527/abstract;jsessionid=FA885E35C7D62AE412BF1895C1382169.f04t03

To me that seems so inconclusive it's barely worth the effort of writing it down. But then I'm a layman.

[slackline]

The Cochrane Library - Acupuncture : Ancient Tradition Meets Modern Science

The section of interest to most here will be "Musculoskeletal disorders" and includes reviews of the evidence of efficacy for acupuncture for shoulders, lateral elbows, low-back pain and neck.

[tomtom]

Not for biceps but for elbows... via Slackline...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003527/abstract;jsessionid=FA885E35C7D62AE412BF1895C1382169.f04t03

To me that seems so inconclusive it's barely worth the effort of writing it down. But then I'm a layman.

+1

But negative results (and ambivalent ones too) are really important... just not as interesting/sexy

[Johnny Brown]

The data do not allow firm conclusions about the effectiveness of acupuncture for acute low-back pain. For chronic low-back pain, acupuncture is more effective for pain relief and functional improvement than no treatment or sham treatment immediately after treatment and in the short-term only. Acupuncture is not more effective than other conventional and "alternative" treatments. The data suggest that acupuncture and dry-needling may be useful adjuncts to other therapies for chronic low-back pain. Because most of the studies were of lower methodological quality, there certainly is a further need for higher quality trials in this area.

I've had most of the treatments for back pain. Acupuncture has been the best in the short term, for me. The best anecdotal evidence in Sheffield climbers seems to be for finger injuries.

[Rocksteady]

I've had acupuncture for injuries to my ankle and for my shoulders.

The acupuncture for my ankle was after a bad fracture and 6 weeks in a cast. The foot and ankle were all purple and swollen and fixed in the wrong position so that the tendon could rejoin a new bit of bone. After the first acupuncture session the ankle returned to normal colour and size - I was pretty impressed.

For shoulders I've had acupuncture as kind of trigger point release in tight muscles around the shoulder injury. Seemed effective for releasing tension in my lats - could feel it tense and relax. I once trained the day after and felt weaker, but two days' rest seemed to be stronger than before. Have to be careful on this sort of thing to consider if you've had the acupuncture to release tension then you are likely to have different movement patterns from 'normal' (i.e. overly tight). Best to climb with caution I reckon rather than go back into full bore training mode.

[fatdoc]

I have had, and administer acupuncture for musculoskeletal imbalance / strain etc.

Yes it can turn a muscle back on, as in deltoid post above... Which was a cracking post btw !!!  I really did LOL... In a good way.

But, I would stand by the maxim, give it some rest!

[nai]

wakey wakey

While I was self massaging and stretching again today I was wondering whether Acupunture might work on tight/inactive muscles where all else seems to have failed. The responses on this thread seem to indicate that it's worth a try so anybody have a recommendation for someone in Sheffield?

Hanx

[lagerstarfish]

no personal experience of what you ask, but I used to work with Annette and like her general attitude around not ripping people off and only wanting to do stuff that works

http://www.sheffield1acupuncture.co.uk/

she understands climbers

[nai]

Sounds good, cheers

[tomtom]

Don’t know if Blunk ever visits this forum any more - by he’s a acupuncturist....

[petejh]

Nai -  for tight / inactive muscles.. imo it'll be well worth you looking into MAT / 'Be Activated'. Two names for the same thing. Look up Douglas Heel 'Be Activated'. Works for me and it's self-treatment once you learn how to do it, which is piss easy.

[Murph]

Hi Nai,

I had some pretty debilitating hamstring problems earlier this year and saw Sally Fawcett (no relation) for what I thought was going to be “normal” physio but I ended up being acupunctured. Unbelievable night and day difference. Couldn’t walk normally one day, ticking new 7s in a session the next.

http://www.kimbaxterphysiotherapy.co.uk/about.html

[tomtom]

When I had a bad back a few years back - I ended up having some acupuncture by a physio who had given up trying everything else (she wasn’t very good tbh) but that made a real difference for a couple of days.

I was very surprised as the scientist in me thought/thinks it’s all higwash...

[webbo]

I’ve had it couple of times to treat elbows and shoulders and it did very little. Maybe you have to belive

[Ged]

Another one for it doing diddly squat. In the excellent book "trick or treatment", which is essentially and review of trials done on a number of different alternative therapies, acupuncture comes out as possibly having some short term relief for some types of neck pain, but otherwise no more effective than ibuprofen. It seems to think a lot of perceived benefit comes from other changes that people likely to make when they are at the stage of seeing a therapist.

Lots of positives on here, but I suppose it depends how much weight you give anecdotal evidence.

[SA Chris]

Did bugger all for me either. Had it a few times.

[webbo]

Maybe it works better if you’re not a grumpy old fucker.