[mark20]

Yeh it's good, fierce and fingery getting into the scoop - a 'testpiece' according to the old BMC guide. Nice rock, more like Max than Embankment. I glued down one wobbly foothold, should be OK but be gentle.
Thanks Dan, good to know!

[iain]

I finished rebolting Why Me yesterday. Still needs old bolts removed and a good brush to remove all the debris but should be down that way tomorrow.
There's tape on the first bolt, just in case people wanted to get on it yesterday after I'd left, although the sample was solid as I was leaving.

[Wood FT]

Excellent, good work

[kc]

An update on the list.

Raven tor
Remove and relocate a shockingly badly placed bolt on a route right of indecent.
There is a dodgy bolt or two around Mecca extension/Kaaba junction.
Top section of Tin of + move lower off above break.
Obscene\ toilet lower off needs replacing.
The replacement of all the bolts and lower off on Call of Nature is not of immediate concern but they are made of substandard materials so will need doing sooner or later.
The only worthwhile route right of here to do is Mortal Combat.
There are a few old bolts/studs to remove on Hot Flushing’s and Hooligan.

Rubicon
There is a lot of tiding up to do here and there is a case for placing/replacing discreet lower offs on some of the trad routes. Apparently they are quite good and having top roped them all I would consider the damage caused by cleaning the top outs unjustifiable.  Gardening the top outs would need to be done regularly with the added danger of falling debris onto a busy footpath.
New discreet Belay points for the following routes are worth considering.
Jezebel, jaws, Piranha, White Bait, Millers Tail
The collection of routes that finish up Dragon Flight currently rely on a single bolt.
Bolt on Jezebel
As for sport routes there is Too Old/Bold, Tribes,
Eugenics?
Belays for Too Old, Eugenics, Tribes, need to be done, Not sure what the caviar belay is like.
Last but not least, Bastard and the rubbish to the right of Rubicon roof.

Moat Buttress
Two Sheep to Leicester and Searching For the Yeti. That is if the latter is still possible.

Crunch Buttress
Mission impossible
Karma Killer belay
Agent Provocateur
Perfecto
Trainer Tamer

WCJ Cornice
The dole
Ape index
Yorkshire 8b mix of rubbish
The weakling (some)
Brachiation Dance
Free Monster (better lower off arrangement)
Superfly
Eclipsed
Glue machine
Sirius
Atilla the Hun

Dale cornice

There are 7 routes to do left of Taylor Made namely the power trip routes, but rarely come into condition.
Nemesis couple of bolts
Malcolm X
A few on roof warrior and cry of despair
Poppy Fields lose bolts in odd position that get used by the routes either side by mistake/cos the there creating rope drag.
Armistice Day lower half bolts all in wrong place
Big zipper and bored bolts are a bit random and as it is so popular could really do with the full resin treatment. Clarion too?
42
Butterflies
Think that’s it here?? Too Pumpy For Grumpy has got 2 lumps of rust. Not sure which way to make it finish to avoid the blocky finish? Greendale has an unsatisfactory lower off position.

Nook

All sorts?? Life in the old log
Bit of Nookey
Storm
and old bolt removal from Lockless & Theora.

Nettle Buttress

Not too familiar with this but Stung is particularly bad.

Two-Tier Buttress

Dodgy lower off on reboot
Stogumber Club
Why Me
Orange Sunshine
Start of Minos and bolt out left on Aberration
Buster
Lightweight
7 pounds

Long Wall

First bolt on Kiss hardy now out of reach. The joint lower offs above this are quite poor
Moldwarp wall
Balancing act/trick show have lost their belay.
Breathless.

Embankment

Don't know but there will be something here.
Stone The Loach and Arachonothera amongst others
Fishing without a license
Beginner’s wall
Let’s get Physical and a load of old bolts to chop. Lets Get Fossilized is done but not the direct


Thats 3 routes down. Well done those involved. I am sure you have done a good job.

Take care out the boys and girls as the wildlife trust are not a happy bunch and take offence to bolts.
If you are approached just tell them that you are replacing old gear on safety grounds, which is true!
We may have to start painting camouflage on our bolts the way things are going.

[Paul B]

Poppy Fields lose bolts in odd position that get used by the routes either side by mistake/cos the there creating rope drag.

A couple of UKBers did this last night and it was so close to the surrounding routes that I was rubbing shoulders with them most of the way!

Armistice Day lower half bolts all in wrong place

They don't seem to bad to me, the one over the roof is a little high but I've seen it clipped by a very very short person. They don't seem to weave too much either?

Big zipper and bored bolts are a bit random and as it is so popular could really do with the full resin treatment.

Nat is on this ATM. She's clipping one bolt above the obvious seam that's in a shoddy state (and fairly tricky to get a draw in if you're her height) and although there's a lot of bolts about, there's also a lot of climbing squeezed in?

Butterflies

Bonjoy commented to say the upper half of these were fine, the bottom 3 were terrible.

[mark20]

I though Poppy Fields was an OK route but the bolts could do with sorting out. First half is alright, but the moves just to the right of Clarion could do with a bolt round the bulge so you aren't facing a nasty fall onto the slab. Then remove the next bolt (the one you can clip from the crimp on Clarion creating loads of rope drag - or maybe move it further left ?)

Armistice Day bolts seem to take loads of sideways forces and the hangars are always spinning, it does need sorting IMO

The last 2 bolts on Big Zipper/Bored need replacing. The bolts on the wall below all seem good though. Beezlebub belay needs replacing.

I'm away next week might have a bit of time after that to sort some things out. But would be good to get some opinions re Clarion/Poppy/Armistice because I don't want to the fuck them up

[Potash]

The lower bolts on bored of the lies were replaced by myself in 2010 using peak bolt fund kit as they were looking suspect and I kept falling off on them.

I have no idea why I did not replace those higher up. Possibly because I was climbing the route using its traditional finish and did not use them.

[AlistairB]

An update on the list.

Can cross off Why Me as well as mentioned further up the thread, shouldn't be much hassle for someone to do Orange Sunshine as well now that the shoddy lower-off has been replaced.

[Ru]

To add to the list for re-gearing if anyone wants an obscure short route to do: All My Pegs in One Basket, an 8a "crack" in Tideswell dale climbed on fixed gear (pegs, stuck hex), now rotten. Actually looks quite good.

[highrepute]

Poppy Fields lose bolts in odd position that get used by the routes either side by mistake/cos the there creating rope drag.

A couple of UKBers did this last night and it was so close to the surrounding routes that I was rubbing shoulders with them most of the way!

There's no solution to this short of chopping the bolts! Moving bolts to there are not accessible from clarion call or armistice day will improve things but I don't know if this is feasible, if Jon was on it last night perhaps he can advise?

Armistice Day lower half bolts all in wrong place

They don't seem to bad to me, the one over the roof is a little high but I've seen it clipped by a very very short person. They don't seem to weave too much either?

I get the impression this relates to the Poppy Fields problem. Replacing the bolts on Armistice with glue-ins would be a good move as Mark said.

Big zipper and bored bolts are a bit random and as it is so popular could really do with the full resin treatment.

Nat is on this ATM. She's clipping one bolt above the obvious seam that's in a shoddy state (and fairly tricky to get a draw in if you're her height) and although there's a lot of bolts about, there's also a lot of climbing squeezed in?

These top bolts (i think there are two near the seam) could be replaced with glue-ins.

Replacing all the bolts with glue-ins on the popular routes from martial to bored would be a good move i think.

To add to the list for re-gearing if anyone wants an obscure short route to do: All My Pegs in One Basket, an 8a "crack" in Tideswell dale climbed on fixed gear (pegs, stuck hex), now rotten. Actually looks quite good.

Mark will be up for that!

[Paul B]

Replacing all the bolts with glue-ins on the popular routes from martial to bored would be a good move i think.

Really?

Personally I see no sense in replacing bolts that don't actually need it given the expense. It's a nice thought and in an ideal world perhaps, but for me, it's not a good use of (limited) resources.

Bear in mind that the fund currently has bolts and glue but the recent order pretty much cleared it out.

These top bolts (i think there are two near the seam) could be replaced with glue-ins.

Best done at the same time as another route if that's the case.

[kc]

Yes I was meant to cross off Why Me but forgot.

For those of you that don't no or remember that the original bolt on Armistice day is the one very high up the grove by the big side pull. The low spinning one down and left and the one on its side by the pocket up and left are on PF. So what I am saying is look at it with fresh eyes and ignore what is there now and place them all in sensible positions. That goes for Zipper/Board.

With regards to Clarion I would personally like to retain that bit of "Spice". The route has history.

With regard to the lower off on Zipper/Board which is fine, there is an awful lot of people that grab or clip long draws off the lower jug for an invalid tick.

[highrepute]

Replacing all the bolts with glue-ins on the popular routes from martial to bored would be a good move i think.

Really?

Personally I see no sense in replacing bolts that don't actually need it given the expense. It's a nice thought and in an ideal world perhaps, but for me, it's not a good use of (limited) resources.

Bear in mind that the fund currently has bolts and glue but the recent order pretty much cleared it out.

well no actually. I didn't think that sentence through properly. I was thinking in the long run, so not relevant to this discussion about what needs doing now.

[Paul B]

For those of you that don't no or remember that the original bolt on Armistice day is the one very high up the grove by the big side pull

I'm confused by this, you rumble up some big sidepulls with the dirty foot ledge then step left via sidepull pocket until you're beneath the roof. There's then a long stretch round to put the clip in around the roof. The poppyfields roof bolt is about 4ft or so to the left at this point.

Are you saying the original was up near the roof? Whatever combination I clipped last night didn't seem to weave at all (as I said above)...

well no actually. I didn't think that sentence through properly. I was thinking in the long run, so not relevant to this discussion about what needs doing now.

[Bonjoy]

Regards LATB - the bottom 3 (possibly 4) bolts are non-stainless and fairly rusty. The ones above are stainless and in sound condition, though one has a loose nut that needs spannering. The top bit would benefit greatly from a dogging bolt as it's very diagonal and much harder than when the route was first done.

[kc]

The crux bolt on Armistice was its second bolt. The first bolt is very high when climbing on mud. That is why PF bolts are also clipped. Both spin and aren't in in ideal positions for AD. It is not hard to position new bolts in a better spot.

[AlistairB]

On a more logistics-related note, a few of us were thinking the other day that maybe we should set up a google document or similar so the list can be kept up to date more easily. Could also have extra fields for stuff like if the old kit has been taken out or not which might help co-ordinate efforts.

Unrelated but whoever took the leaver biner off Cry of Despair is a prat unless there's a good reason for this.

[kc]

The beauty of glue in bolts and the new bar hangers is that the unsightly bail biner and tat can be dispensed with. All very important with the increasing access issues. "To be seen is to be vulnerable". But yes a plain crab left in the back of a roof is very handy.

[shark]

I though Poppy Fields was an OK route but the bolts could do with sorting out. First half is alright, but the moves just to the right of Clarion could do with a bolt round the bulge so you aren't facing a nasty fall onto the slab. Then remove the next bolt (the one you can clip from the crimp on Clarion creating loads of rope drag - or maybe move it further left ?)

Im glad you thought it was an OK route - not an opinion shared by Hayden

7a+ bag of.... has 2 independent moves on it

It is definitely squeezed in but the only moves it shares are the very start of Armistice and the finish of Clarion and the shake out jug in the middle. I tried to place the gear so it wouldn't be clipped from either but clearly failed in that respect. If it is generally felt to detract too much from Armistice and Clarion then the best solution is write it of as a misconceived idea and debolt it.

[Johnny Brown]

maybe we should set up a google document or similar so the list can be kept up to date more easily. Could also have extra fields for stuff like if the old kit has been taken out or not which might help co-ordinate efforts.

Good idea, they've done something similar in Avon. I guess it could be embedded in the thread too? Or at least a snapshot.

[highrepute]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NXzn5dDD7Q5L-EB-IyNEt1TjW9fqA7NQrrFFx_hKbD4/pubhtml

This what people are thinking? I'm sure it could be improved in some way.

The doc can be edited if you have a link. If you want link let me know and I'll PM it to you.

Doc is published as a webpage that updates automatically when doc is edited, although I think there is a bit of lag. It might be possible for a forum mod to embed the webpage in a post.

Bit of trust involved in allowing anyone with a link to edit.

[Paul B]

Having one that logs where the gear is, fair enough.

I'm not sure of the wisdom of going beyond this and I'm certain it was discussed previously.

[highrepute]

Based on Pauls comment and the earlier stuff said. I've scrapped the spreadsheet idea. The list on here should be sufficient imho.

[Paul B]

The beauty of glue in bolts and the new bar hangers is that the unsightly bail biner and tat can be dispensed with.

It'd probably sadden you to see the bail biners left on glue-ins that can easily be threaded at the Cornice (in the past week).

[Wood FT]

I thought the spreadsheet was a good idea, in so much as re-quoting the list everytime on here is crap and bound to cause confusion.