[tomtom]

I can feel a poll coming on maybe ?

I think that given John gave up his time for us to be interviewed and also said he was happy to meet Dan it would be churlish to post a poll like that

Amen. (please do not misinterpret my attempts to form a poll committee as anything other than purile humour).

[a dense loner]

I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.

Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently

[shark]

I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.

Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently

From what I gather secondhand is that a number have gone up - taken one look and said this impossible / unclimbable so the value of the meeting is whether John can show Dan a credible sequence that looks feasible or can point to where the holds where that he used that have now come off. John was vague in the interview about the sequence but hopefully being in front of the problem will bring it back (like when Malc realised what  Malc One Armers problem was when we went to the Tor as before he said he had no recollection of it). Yes the outcome of a JG/DV meetup wont amount to absolute proof either way but it won't be of absolutely no value either.

[liam fyfe]

I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.

Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently

I understood about the first paragraph, but I was genuinelly interested in the problem and only hearing rumoours of how hard/impossible it looks and not seeing it but had seen il pirata etc was literally asking does most people think it looks the hardest. Not once did I say he had or hadnt climbed it but I completely agree with dan v about the truth needing to out point. No need to get fucking irate about anything.

[slackline]

No need to get fucking irate about anything.

Read through the old threads without getting dizzy to understand why there is a degree of futility in discussing these issues.

[liam fyfe]

No need to get fucking irate about anything.

Read through the old threads without getting dizzy to understand why there is a degree of futility in discussing these issues.

I have read alot of them and researched the net, I literally only asked if shadowplay was considered the hardest/impossible looking out of all jg problems, and when I said it be good for jg and dv to go to shadowplay sharks post sums exactly what I meant.

[GCW]

Pretty sure Johnny G said VNB contained the hardest moves on any of his problems.

[Moo]

I've read all the comments since my last post and i'm going to put it out there,

Pink Anasazi (old version)

[a dense loner]

Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike

[lagerstarfish]

I look forward to Shauna climbing it

[AMorris]

I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.

Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently

Well it's not a consensus either so what on earth was it. The thread has drifted off topic from my original intention of finding out how people would feel if it got a repeat and confirmed at 8C, in fact it wasn't even specific to Shadowplay just anything considered 'another level', I just used Shadowplay as the example. Don't complain about the futility of discussing a topic which you clearly considered relevant enough to weigh in on, sending us on a whole new tangent. I would just like to see what JG says about its current state and I'd assume it would jog some kind of memory of the ascent.

Who pissed on your chips?

[lagerstarfish]

he pissed on his own chips just to prove how tough he is

[jwi]

Didn't the best climber in the world look at VNB for a few seconds, politely smiled and left?

[Danny]

Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently

This post has brightened up my evening.

[Fiend]

What if they both go to Shadowplay and get eaten by the now-carnivorous boars??

[Monolith]

I couldn't care less these days. We've spent the best part of a decade going round in circles on UKB and I think the engine has run out of steam at last.

Pulling on is basically a sport in itself and for that, the toe hook section of VNB is an uber feat. Lee, didn't you once grade campus routines? Or wait, was that you rubbishing woz trying to grade them. I'm getting confused in older age. Either way you're still the highlight of my daily forum allowance.

[iain]

Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike

It is.
There are a few rules about memory:
- Memory is generally shit and everyone is better/worse at remembering different things. (We often reconstruct rather than remember without being aware we're doing that.)
- We think our memory is much better than it is, particularly about details.

You might think you remember details from an ascent 15 years ago, doesn't mean someone else would, regardless of how long they'd spent projecting it or how important it was to them. You say that him going up and remembering enough to say the holds have altered wouldn't change anything, and then use his lack of memory of the sequence as a stick to beat the boar with.
Or something like that.

[slackline]

Didn't the best climber in the world look at VNB for a few seconds, politely smiled and left?

They must have been having a lot of fun.

[finbarrr]

Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike

It is.
There are a few rules about memory:
- Memory is generally shit and everyone is better/worse at remembering different things. (We often reconstruct rather than remember without being aware we're doing that.)
- We think our memory is much better than it is, particularly about details.

You might think you remember details from an ascent 15 years ago, doesn't mean someone else would, regardless of how long they'd spent projecting it or how important it was to them. You say that him going up and remembering enough to say the holds have altered wouldn't change anything, and then use his lack of memory of the sequence as a stick to beat the boar with.
Or something like that.

but surely you would have constructed a memory of your hardest projects/boulders?
i know i have, and most people i know who have spent more than two sessions on a problem.
and when you recreate those problems on a board and practice them day in, day out?

[slackline]

but surely you would have constructed a memory of your hardest projects/boulders?
i know i have, and most people i know who have spent more than two sessions on a problem.
and when you recreate those problems on a board and practice them day in, day out?

...you'll still be susceptible to all manner of cognitivie biases.

I think the point Dense is making is that the only proof this problem has been climbed will be evidence that someone has climbed it (credible (multiple) witnesses and/or video footage).  Knowing that some holds have broken and/or credible sequences on holds that no longer exist won't provide any support to their claimed ascents.

[SA Chris]

Didn't the best climber in the world look at VNB for a few seconds, politely smiled and left?

No, I've not been*




*assuming the best by definition as the one having the most fun.

[finbarrr]

but surely you would have constructed a memory of your hardest projects/boulders?
i know i have, and most people i know who have spent more than two sessions on a problem.
and when you recreate those problems on a board and practice them day in, day out?

...you'll still be susceptible to all manner of cognitivie biases.

I think the point Dense is making is that the only proof this problem has been climbed will be evidence that someone has climbed it (credible (multiple) witnesses and/or video footage).  Knowing that some holds have broken and/or credible sequences on holds that no longer exist won't provide any support to their claimed ascents.

I agree!
I was trying to say I find it strange that apparently JG does not have a clear "construction" of his ascent (however flawed)

[iain]

I was trying to say I find it strange that apparently JG does not have a clear "construction" of his ascent (however flawed)

What I was trying to say was that because you or Dense and people you know might have a clear construction (however flawed) of problems you've climbed it doesn't mean that someone else will.

I think the point Dense is making is that the only proof this problem has been climbed will be evidence that someone has climbed it (credible (multiple) witnesses and/or video footage).  Knowing that some holds have broken and/or credible sequences on holds that no longer exist won't provide any support to their claimed ascents.

I agree but he also said

Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike

implying that the lack of memory casts further doubt on his claims and that's what I was taking issue with.

[tc]

Of course it casts doubts on his claim. You don't just walk up to a problem like Shadowplay, give it a quick brush, climb it in a session and then fuck off to the pub and forget about it. It takes time, several visits probably, over weeks, months or even years. You spend so long on problems that are at your absolute limit that the moves (or at least the hardest moves) become part of your DNA.

Having said all that, I really can't be arsed with this any more, either. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I just choose to believe what I believe. Which is a shame.
 

[Lund]

Is this thread




... a fucking joke?

Or a trolling fest?

We've had this out already

repeatedly

close your eyes

imagine yourself as a happy child.  The sun is shining, it's warm, there is a pleasant breeze, and the wind whistles gently through the branches.  You are standing ankle deep in a babbling brook, the warm water bubbling and swirling and flowing along.

if the water flows west, then you are from lancashire.  Wake up, someone from liverpool is stealing your car!  But you are a believer, and as you sprint towards your retreating vehicle you can be comforted by the thought that G is not a fantasist and yes he really did do all those problems.

If the water flows east, you are a cynical yorkshire bastard, G is a lying bastard, and your brother has the socks and shoes today which is why you're standing in the stream with cut feet, wondering why he's killed your kestrel.

If this all sounds mad, then you're from somewhere else, don't have an affinity with roses, and frankly don't deserve an opinion.