UKBouldering.com

New Yorker article about recent Sherpa events on Everest (Read 6901 times)

miso soup

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +15/-0
Interesting piece by Jon Krakauer.  The main points are that people saw the ice-fall coming and the deaths probably could of been avoided, and that while climbing Everest as a rich westerner has got steadily safer it's still just as dangerous for the Sherpas.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/04/everest-sherpas-death-and-anger.html?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=twitter&mbid=social_twitter

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20294
  • Karma: +643/-11
Good thread to start.

Yesterday I nearly posted up this shoddy bit of journalism from the Grauniad.... More reminiscent of the Daily Mail...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/climbing-everest-peak-hubris-sherpas-tragedy

especially in the context of this comment to the article:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/climbing-everest-peak-hubris-sherpas-tragedy#comment-34725661

Having read Kraukner and Boukreevs (SP?) books on the 96 Everest tragedy I tend to treat much of what Kraukner says with a level of doubt......

miso soup

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +15/-0
I did hesitate before posting because I've heard other people saying similar things about Krakauer, I've never actually read any of his books.  The bit about Himex bailing off the mountain last season was something I hadn't seen mentioned in any of the other articles recently.

miso soup

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +15/-0
Although it seems they were there this year when the avalanche occurred, it did seem slightly suspicious that Krakauer didn't link to the blog post he was quoting...

http://himalayanexperience.com/newsletters/2014-expeditions/the-daily-moraine-everest-avalanche#sthash.eqm7khgZ.dpbs

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4257
  • Karma: +332/-1
    • On Steep Ground


miso soup

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +15/-0
That guy seems to be taking issue with the Sherpa's demand that they be paid for a season even in the event of their expedition being abandoned, shortly after pointing out that the guide companies' clients pay all their fees up-front with no hope of a refund.  So the guide companies and the Nepali government get paid regardless of whether anyone actually summits or not, doesn't seem unreasonable for the Sherpas to want the same privilege?


petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36
Now would be a logical time for the Nepaleese government or the regional bodies  to look into the 'Nepaleesation' of the Everest guiding business - by which I mean this is a logical point to take greater control of their own resource - Everest - in the same way the Oman ruling class took control of theirs by their scheme of 'Omanisation' of their oil industry during the 90s/early noughties and which continues today:  http://www.timesofoman.com/News/29950/Article-100-000-expats-to-lose-jobs-in-Omanisation

(Talking about massively different revenues here: oil > a mountain).

And obviously this already happens to some extent - permit fees etc.

Those Brit/German/Yank/Canadian/Kiwi/et al guiding outfits could actually be Nepaleese guiding outfits with Nepalese owners using Nepalese professional mountain guides. There are a number of Nepalese guides employed now but I think I'm right in saying they're not in the majority, which seems odd in 2014 when there's no good reason for lack of access to funding and training. When you stop to think about it would the BMG and AMI be comfortable with the majority of guiding business in North Wales and Scotland being taken by overseas guiding companies  :-\

As for the recent deaths - imagine the reaction here if it had been a party of 12 young Scottish people from Aviemore avalanched in the Cairngorms, while employed to carry loads for some fictional foreign-owned guiding company, so that groups of wealthy <insert foreigner of choice> can keep coming over here to spend their disposable income going snowholing in the Scottish Highlands.. I think the two obvious questions being asked by the locals would be - 'who the fuck are we risking our lives for?' and 'who's gaining the most from this?'.

If the Everset economic picture looked more like Nepalese owners/guides/sherpas, instead of foreign owner/foreign & Nepalese guide/Nepalese sherpa,  then might it at least result in the Nepalese having a greater feeling of ownership, control and acceptance of tragedies such as this recent one?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 11:34:21 am by petejh »

duncan

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2981
  • Karma: +336/-2
So the relative risk of climbing Everest has decreased for clients and western guides but increased for locals. Is it too obvious to make the comparison with the Rana Plaza collapse?  Brown-skinned labourers exploited to support the artificially low price of a western discretionary spending activity (or given well-paid jobs crucial to the local economy, depending on where you stand)?

No wonder the pleading tone of Tim Mosedale’s piece. It is typical of many written by western adventure travel outfits, a mixture of paternalism (our wonderful sherpa brothers) and covering their backsides. Not surprisingly western operators don’t like Sherpas starting to wrestle for control. This, and the fistfight in the wild western cwm last year, suggest a younger, less deferential, generation flexing their muscles.

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4257
  • Karma: +332/-1
    • On Steep Ground
For anyone willing to cull 4% of the workforce of young, fit, and healthy men in a population on a yearly basis, I can suggest many other schemes to "improve the local economy". Why not organ harvesting for instance?

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36
Not sure on the 4% statistic but whatever the true mortality rate is, it's certainly higher than that of western guiding companies' leaders and clients. Put into the context of the debate around sweatshop labour I'd expect Everest Sherpas to come out looking quite shabbily treated by western guiding companies (and not forgetting by their own government). Robot sherpas are what you want. Made in China. Actually it's probably possible, and safer in the long term, to build aluminum tracks through the Khumbu and repair them as and when necessary and have automated luggage trains... Fixed lines, fixed tracks.

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36
Essential reading: http://alpinist.com/doc/web14s/wfeature-everest-myth  from Katie Ives at Alpinist.

Quote
In a 2013 article, "The Disposable Man," Outside Senior Editor Grayson Schaffer wrote about Everest in much-needed, de-mythologized terms: "A Sherpa working above Base Camp on Everest is nearly 10 times more likely to die than a commercial fisherman—the profession the Center for Disease Control and Prevention rates as the most dangerous nonmilitary job in the US—and more then three and a half times as likely to perish than an infantryman during the first four years of the Iraq war. As a dice roll for someone paying to reach the summit, the dangers of climbing can perhaps be rationalized. But as a workplace safety statistic, 1.2 percent mortality is outrageous. There's no other service industry in the world that so frequently kills and maims its workers for the benefits of paying clients."

slackline

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18863
  • Karma: +633/-26
    • Sheffield Boulder
When did the Himalaya get transplanted to "the US"?

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36
The point being made - as I'm sure you know - is the high altitude porters are only there (i.e. making 30 trips through unstable icefalls) to serve a market predominantly consisting of rich western customers. That's why it's a relevant comparison - in the same way that it's relevant to know the labour conditions behind your coffee/clothing/iphone/xyz consumer goods.
If the workers in the factory that built your mac had a 1.2% mortality rate wouldn't you'd be a little concerned? Just because they're dying on a mountain doesn't mean it's not like any other job.


slackline

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18863
  • Karma: +633/-26
    • Sheffield Boulder
Thanks Pete, I fully understand the point being made.

There are other high risk jobs in the world that are the result of rich western customers demand to which the comparison can also be made.  An example closely related to your Mac questions is the mining of the rare minerals that are required to produce the explosion in smart phones we all have*.  At the other end of the spectrum there is the recycling of electronic waste which is often carried out in very hazardous conditions in developing countries.  Both of these put people in developing countries at high risk (but with greater remuneration than otherwise available, just as is the case for Sherpas) for the benefit of rich western customers. 

These would, to me, be a more realistic comparison than the health & safety governed US fishing trade to which the comparison is being made.


* If people are bothered about where the components of their smartphone are sourced then Fairphone is an option.

T_B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3095
  • Karma: +150/-5
Put into the context of the debate around sweatshop labour I'd expect Everest Sherpas to come out looking quite shabbily treated by western guiding companies (and not forgetting by their own government).

Are you serious? There's a debate to be had about whether the Khumbu Icefall has become too dangerous to justify anyone working in it. But the Sherpas take home is about 30% of the income from an Everest exped. They earn up to US$8,000 on Everest in the spring, then a further US$2,000 - US$4,000 in the autumn season. So all in all over 20 x the national average income in Nepal. Your average UK 'guide' probably earns around £30K a year. The Sherpas can afford to live in Kathmandu and send their children to private school, which is the reason why they are working in the trekking/mountaineering 'industry'. How else do you make the leap from subsistence farmer to getting a university education? I know people who were commercial porters who now lead treks and expeditions and have managed to send their children to university in the UK. Ask them whether they feel exploited by guiding companies. Would it be OK if none of the Western companies operated on Everest any longer, just Nepalese owned companies? But they still employed Sherpas to do the same dangerous work?

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36
Thanks Pete, I fully understand the point being made.

These would, to me, be a more realistic comparison than the health & safety governed US fishing trade to which the comparison is being made.


I just thought the comparison with US jobs made sense, in the context of it being made by a US editor for a US publication. I didn't think much more about it than that. I'm sure he could have cherry picked other jobs in other parts of the world but the target readership wouldn't know much about them.

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36
Put into the context of the debate around sweatshop labour I'd expect Everest Sherpas to come out looking quite shabbily treated by western guiding companies (and not forgetting by their own government).

Are you serious? There's a debate to be had about whether the Khumbu Icefall has become too dangerous to justify anyone working in it. But the Sherpas take home is about 30% of the income from an Everest exped. They earn up to US$8,000 on Everest in the spring, then a further US$2,000 - US$4,000 in the autumn season. So all in all over 20 x the national average income in Nepal. Your average UK 'guide' probably earns around £30K a year. The Sherpas can afford to live in Kathmandu and send their children to private school, which is the reason why they are working in the trekking/mountaineering 'industry'. How else do you make the leap from subsistence farmer to getting a university education? I know people who were commercial porters who now lead treks and expeditions and have managed to send their children to university in the UK. Ask them whether they feel exploited by guiding companies. Would it be OK if none of the Western companies operated on Everest any longer, just Nepalese owned companies? But they still employed Sherpas to do the same dangerous work?

OK with who - me? The Nepalese? You?
(hint - I'm sure the Nepalese would like to be taking a greater portion of dollar pie than they currently do).

slackline

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18863
  • Karma: +633/-26
    • Sheffield Boulder


I just thought the comparison with US jobs made sense, in the context of it being made by a US editor for a US publication. I didn't think much more about it than that. I'm sure he could have cherry picked other jobs in other parts of the world but the target readership wouldn't know much about them.

I don't think there is ever anything wrong with widening people's knowledge/experience and that its better to do so than to remain insular.  Conjecture but I would expect Alpinist readers (who are not exclusively US based) are likely to be quite widely travelled.

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5795
  • Karma: +624/-36


I just thought the comparison with US jobs made sense, in the context of it being made by a US editor for a US publication. I didn't think much more about it than that. I'm sure he could have cherry picked other jobs in other parts of the world but the target readership wouldn't know much about them.

I don't think there is ever anything wrong with widening people's knowledge/experience and that its better to do so than to remain insular.  Conjecture but I would expect Alpinist readers (who are not exclusively US based) are likely to be quite widely travelled.

So would I, but the quote was from 'Outside' - a predominantly US publication, used within a piece by Alpinist.

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4257
  • Karma: +332/-1
    • On Steep Ground
Jon Gagdal in Nepal Times http://nepalitimes.com/article/nation/everest-dangerous-place-to-work,1316

Quote
After the tragedy on 18 April, it is tempting to come up with new rules and regulations. These will not help unless we are willing to turn the whole Everest-pyramid upside down, and put the Sherpas and other locals on the top of it. Not as ‘The Real Heroes’, but as workers with the same rights as other workers.

The formal rights of the Sherpas and the general way they are led and treated on climbing expeditions, is – with a few exceptions – like how bosses used to treat their employees in the first years after the Industrial Revolution: everything is for the benefit and the interest of the owner.

Every expedition leader (including myself) have made decisions for the progress or profit of the expedition. They give bonuses for more loads, fixed ropes and high altitude metres climbed. But I haven’t yet seen an expedition leader rewarding a Sherpa for saying: “Sorry, Sir, it’s not the time to go up now, I have a really bad feeling about this.”

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal