[Paul B]

I unearthed yet another gaping hole in my technical ability once more on Sunday: toe hooks. I'm not sure what it is about them but even the simplest of moves with the best hooks I'm almost unable to get anything from them at all. This I'd like to rectify. I once made a concerted effort in the works and spent a session mainly landing on my head from the skips but made little progress.

So as per the Verterbrate guide I was looking to UKB to try and identify a similar list but revolving around toe hooks (preferably peak-centric).

Great timing with the season on its way out I know... I'll start with:

The Nose
T-Crack
Lowrider

[Percy B]

Season on the way out? Crazy talk.

Firstly, I can only hope that you are not a 5.10 Dragon wearer.... toe hooking in down-turned shoes is like a broken pencil. Pointless...

The Nose and T-Crack are the most obvious, and have the easiest toe-hooks on them, so if these ones are causing you problems then best start here. Having a 'heavy arse' will pay dividends. Let yourself sag in the middle - don't try and use body-tension or strength to pull your toe into the holds. I think you can be too strong to toe-hook effectively - this is why weak climbers like me use them so much and can get them to stick as we naturally sag......

[205Chris]

A few I can think of (some are these are fairly basic toe hooks, others are the crux!)

Sweet Chariot (filthy crag Q) - Gets all the wind going so can be good in warmer temps
Tetris
Zaff Skoczylas
Big Al Qaeda (think some people use a heel, I used a toe)
Captain Hook
Superbrook
My Apple
Most stuff in Tom's Roof

[Sloper]

Secret 7th Caley has to be right up there, can't think of any others.

[Paul B]

Firstly, I can only hope that you are not a 5.10 Dragon wearer.... toe hooking in down-turned shoes is like a broken pencil. Pointless...

I was not wearing dragons, if only it were that simple. I was hoping a pair of teams may be better (or do I need to paint a pair of Moccs with 5.10 goop?).

The Nose and T-Crack are the most obvious, and have the easiest toe-hooks on them, so if these ones are causing you problems then best start here.

Usually (and in the past) I just avoid them by opting for a strong sequence (or a heel) but I'd rather try and sort it out. Yes, T-crack I struggle to toehook and take my foot off, instead I had to pretend like it was in and it kinda works mid move (as the other foot leaves the block) but others were happily placing it, taking the other foot off etc. this I cannot do.

Having a 'heavy arse' will pay dividends.

I don't have one of those 

Let yourself sag in the middle - don't try and use body-tension or strength to pull your toe into the holds. I think you can be too strong to toe-hook effectively - this is why weak climbers like me use them so much and can get them to stick as we naturally sag......

Wax on wax off. I get it. Maybe...

[cofe]

River of Life.

[abarro81]

lime but local - bullet (invert method), tarantula. Both bomber hooks but it's all useful practice

River is v good so +1 on that

[Johnny Brown]

If its not working on T-crack something is badly wrong. They don't come much bigger or more positive. Sounds to me like you have the wrong boots - Teams will be equally shit. Having worn flat shoes for ever (Velcros) it came as something as a shock that I can't toehook at all in anything even slightly more aggressive (Arrowheads, Dragons). It is pretty unnatural so you do have to work at it a bit.

You are short so that will make up for not having a fat arse.

[cofe]

Don't people cheat past the toe hook on T Crack now anyway? Agreed it's massive if you use it.

[Doylo]

Teams are not a great shape for toe hooks but make up for it slightly by the rubber on top.

[abarro81]

Huffys roof too. For made in sheffield me n shrew used a toe.

[205Chris]

Glasshour at the plantation.

The most recent sequence I've seen on T-Crack avoids the toe hook completely by undercutting out to the left side of the slopey shelf then moving rightwards.

Edit: What Cofe said.

[tomtom]

Demon wall roof..

[Nigel]

The most recent sequence I've seen on T-Crack avoids the toe hook completely by undercutting out to the left side of the slopey shelf then moving rightwards.

I'm not normally fussed about these things, alternative sequences etc., but surely this this isn't T-Crack?

Anyway, on topic. I used to be OK at toe hooks but then went shit after I broke my ankle. Was because my anterior tibialis had wasted to nowt - this is the muscle that pulls your foot up i.e. the toehook muscle. Given that you've broken both your legs a hundred times (?) might be worth checking to see how strong these muscles are, or if there is an imbalance between legs.

[Doylo]

Get some body strength Bennett you lightweight

[Three Nine]

 toe hooking in down-turned shoes is like a broken pencil. Pointless...

what utter crap

[uptown]

Spin ghar at whitehouses is the best toehookery i've come across paul. As percy says its all in the arse sag. Peak I rate lowrider.

[Paul B]

If its not working on T-crack something is badly wrong.

My thoughts exactly but as I said above, it isn't the boots (unless having purple VCSs make the difference, and yes, I'm being flippant).

You are short so that will make up for not having a fat arse.

Result.

Given that you've broken both your legs a hundred times (?) might be worth checking to see how strong these muscles are, or if there is an imbalance between legs.

If it'd been my right leg then yes this would be my first thought. I don't dare write what I was just thinking but I'm sure you can guess, I'm going to go and touch some wood having just thought it. I can't really look for an imbalance between the two as I'm just as shit with both!

I have quite tight hamstrings and calf muscles, this can't help either, right?

[tommytwotone]

I used a heel-toe to toe hook to toe drag combo on Breakfast to control / kill the swing on the crux.

[Monolith]

Totally disagree with any 5.10 Team naysaying. Absolutely unreal for toe hooking for me. Irrelevant to topic of post but Under The Bridge at Pantymwyn climbed with the guppy method makes for an uber tensiony and brilliant toe hook crux move.

Your power crimp must make up for any slight deficiency in this department beast!?

[dave]

Ditto, Teams are the best toehooking boot I've ever had. Some of you guys must have been hitting the crack pipe a bit too hard.

Paul, one of the roof problems right of the terrace has a great toehoooking sequence, stretched out and involving a hanging toehook match. The short arse sequence on the Nose has a fairly technical toehook match sequence up for grabs too. Lowrider is the other obvious one.

[Stu Littlefair]

I reckon Percy speaks the truth. Shoes and shin strength are all well and good but even my gran could use the t-crack toe hooks in carpet slippers.

You're probably over thinking/pulling it. The missus is the same. Only when the toe hook is really close does it help to pull in on it, otherwise just relax your leg and drop yer bum out till the weight comes on it.

In terms of things to practise on - this grit is all well and good, but have you seen the weather? Make it Funky has some very sweet toe-hooking action.

[SA Chris]

Having a 'heavy arse' will pay dividends.

I don't have one of those 

Weightbelt?

I think shin strength is my main problem with them, as soon as i put any weight on one my foot just curls out. Or maybe it's 13.5 st of weight pulling on it?

[tomtom]

Ditto, Teams are the best toehooking boot I've ever had. Some of you guys must have been hitting the crack pipe a bit too hard.

Not used/had teams, but my sCrapa VCS Velcro (probably a couple of other V things afterwards) shoes are good for toehookshennanigans... ribbbed rubber (!) patch over a strong box (!)

[tommytwotone]

...my gran could use the t-crack toe hooks in carpet slippers.

She could climb 7a in 'er pinny!

[dave]

Ditto, Teams are the best toehooking boot I've ever had. Some of you guys must have been hitting the crack pipe a bit too hard.

Not used/had teams, but my sCrapa VCS Velcro (probably a couple of other V things afterwards) shoes are good for toehookshennanigans... ribbbed rubber (!) patch over a strong box (!)

If they came encrusted with diamonds, stuffed with £50 notes floating in a tank of Cristal I still wouldn't have a pair of Scarpas.....

Juju club at caley is another toehook job.

[tomtom]

Ditto, Teams are the best toehooking boot I've ever had. Some of you guys must have been hitting the crack pipe a bit too hard.

Not used/had teams, but my sCrapa VCS Velcro (probably a couple of other V things afterwards) shoes are good for toehookshennanigans... ribbbed rubber (!) patch over a strong box (!)

If they came encrusted with diamonds, stuffed with £50 notes floating in a tank of Cristal I still wouldn't have a pair of Scarpas.....

The diamonds do tend to leave some scratch marks on some surfaces

[Duma]

Paul, one of the roof problems right of the terrace has a great toehoooking sequence, stretched out and involving a hanging toehook match.

I do this at 10:30 on this vid:

not sure it's entirely neccesary, but is great fun.

[mr__j5]

If you are trying to toe hook something that you are already holding onto and your arms are short compared to your legs, then sometimes it can be pretty hard to sag onto the toes.

[Doylo]

If you are trying to toe hook something that you are already holding onto and your arms are short compared to your legs, then sometimes it can be pretty hard to sag onto the toes.

I think hooking by your hand can be hard if you're gangly too. There's a lot of bent slack limb to keep tight. I was struggling on a move like this last week. Probably down to my flabby core though. 

[Jaspersharpe]

With the new school room opening, surely you can get a masterclass from gme?

[fiveknuckle21]

Mushin is another. Jet 7s worked fine for me on this and they had a bit of a downturn on them.

Another vote for saggy bum method but im still fearful of them.

[dave]

Sagging the arse down is dubious beta to me. Might work for toehooks that are quite stretched, juggy, or straight legged, but for close-in or marginal toehooks you need to be pulling up to get them to work. The toehook on the nose is an example of this.

[tomtom]

Sagging the arse down is dubious beta to me. Might work for toehooks that are quite stretched, juggy, or straight legged, but for close-in or marginal toehooks you need to be pulling up to get them to work. The toehook on the nose is an example of this.

Sagging arse works if you're heel then toe hooking your way along (for example) a traverse (you know where you bring the toe of your other foot up to allow the heel to move etc..). Otherwise I'm with Dave on this - body tension is key..

[tommytwotone]

Just remembered...that Hourglass at Plantation's another hooktastic number isn't it?

[tomtom]

Just remembered...that Hourglass at Plantation's another hooktastic number isn't it?

Think 205Chris had that down earlier word.

[boulderingbacon]

I'm crap at heal hooking so use toes quite a lot. Used a toe instead of a heal on brass monkeys which seemed to work. Or you could just campus :-)

[Kermit]

I used toes quite a bit on hampers hang heel with right left toe behind and used this to move the heel along same can be done on lots of lit traverses even green just for toe hookery practice.

[galpinos]

I used toes quite a bit on hampers hang heel with right left toe behind and used this to move the heel along same can be done on lots of lit traverses even green just for toe hookery practice.

I'm afraid I can't condone heels or toehooking on the green traverse, whether it's for practise or not.

[erm, sam]

Come on he only wants to use heels and toes on the Green for practise. As long as he is wearing a tee clearly marked "ONLY PRACTISING" I can't see a problem with that.

[fatneck]

Nothing to add to the discussion but I want a JUST PRACTICING Tee!!! 

[Paul B]

I used toes quite a bit on hampers hang heel with right left toe behind and used this to move the heel along same can be done on lots of lit traverses even green just for toe hookery practice.

I can get them to work like this, it's more when you're relying solely on a toe that I fall down (and land on my head).

[galpinos]

As long as he is wearing a tee clearly marked "ONLY PRACTISING" I can't see a problem with that.

If Shark wears one, will he no longer get any grief whilst he's wandering the Peak with a ladder under his arm?

[SA Chris]

Nothing to add to the discussion but I want a JUST PRACTICING Tee!!! 

Next UKB tee?

[Jaspersharpe]

It should be on a high vis vest.

[Paul B]

I'm afraid I can't condone heels or toehooking on the green traverse, whether it's for practise or not.

you lot would have been very upset by some of the sequences on show today then...

[cha1n]

I haven't climbed in the peak much but remember having double toe hooks on cave route at Robin Hood's stride.

I rate teams for toehooking too and although they are downturned, they have a very soft midsole so it's easy to hyper-extend the foot to get rid of the downturn. Dave Graham seems to get on ok toehooking with them...

[Sasquatch]

Nothing to add to the discussion but I want a JUST PRACTICING Tee!!! 

:thumbsup:Me Too!

[rich d]

Nothing to add to the discussion but I want a JUST PRACTICING Tee!!! 

:thumbsup:Me Too!

me 3

[SA Chris]

It's been a while since the last UKB Tee.

[peewee]

Demon wall roof..

Other ones at the Cliff:

Underhand - using Barrow's method, Dialectics, Exorcist, many versions of the keel.

[Bonjoy]

Sweet Chariot – As mentioned already. A hard dynamic toehook which is then hard and tenuous to use. If you enjoy this ninja shit the low version of Purple Haze has one too. Vids of both on pb.info.
Another vote for Tarantula. Several toehooks on this, including a tricky one on the crux.
House of the Holey and Grimoire both at Cratcliff, the former is really hard toe hooking, the latter quite bold.
Beeched Whale at Curbar.
If you’re after double toehooks then as already mentioned Lowrider and River of Life, plus The Golden Egg – you might not have the span for the first move but you can still do the toehooky bits. One thing I’ve found with double toehooks is that they are good for moving you’re legs along, but when it comes to a hand move you are usually better off dropping one of the toehooks off and using the dropped leg as a counterbalance.
Clampy prows frequently involve a bit of toehookery, often in opposition to a heel on the really steep ones. You could try this technique (aka the reverse Egyptian/sideways bicycle/gayleg-heel combo) on for instance Big Girl’s Brow, or Mossatrosity.
It may be getting a bit warmer at Stanage but there are plenty of grit crags that haven’t even come into season yet. The general ignorance about this and the attendant rush to the lime never ceases to amaze me every year. Get up to Howshaw (when it get’s a bit warmer). Panopticon has some good double toehooking and Broke Beak has some tenuous ones.
I assume you're not after heel-toe stuff, that's a whole other list...

[Paul B]

Peewee - Peak Centric if possible, it's much more feasible over the coming weeks for me to nip out to the Peak rather than driving up through Leeds to the Yorkshire crags. If I'm going that far (with my ignorance) then it'll be to Malham  .

Ta, Bonjoy.

No heel-toe stuff is fine as is anything where there's some kind of opposition (as in clamping/bicycling). Roofs and lowrider type toe work is where I seem to struggle.

Yesterday my lax of flexibility was highlighted once more so I'll try and make a concerted effort to fix that and see if things improve.