[bigtuboflard]

could drop Avalanche Academy an email and see if they have any courses running after the one this weekend? May well be doing some later in March and April given their access to high altitude terrain. Chamonix always works well for me, you could maybe stop in Les Houches if the OH needs gentler terrain lessons.

Also some good resources to check out here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=93697

I'll have a think if there is anywhere else that comes to mind too

[AndyR]

Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?

I have the potential opportunity to do this soon (i.e. in the next month) but it'd need to cater to both our needs (and that's if we don't go climbing instead, $$$ certainly suggests that's what we SHOULD do).

Thanks etc.

Whistler, obviously - good for both those things.

[Paul B]

Bad for the bank balance though!

[Johnny Brown]

Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?

Most, if not all that I've been to. Every resort has a ski school, so no problems for Nat. You just need to check the off-piste, I would imagine you'd be able to do a day tour with some tuition thrown in anywhere.

[bigtuboflard]

Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?

Most, if not all that I've been to. Every resort has a ski school, so no problems for Nat. You just need to check the off-piste, I would imagine you'd be able to do a day tour with some tuition thrown in anywhere.

Thats a reasonable approach and will give you the most flexibility for sure, just be conscious that you may end up with a guide who just wants to get some mileage in. A proper backcountry avalanche course actually doesn't contain a huge amount of backcountry riding, at least not as much as you might first expect. A lot of time can be spent learning some basic snow science, then looking at route choice, digging and analysing snow pits and doing stability tests etc. This inevitably eats in to downhill time. Thats not to say guides won't do any of this stuff, but I'd go for formal lessons if that is what you are really after.

[Fultonius]

Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?

Most, if not all that I've been to. Every resort has a ski school, so no problems for Nat. You just need to check the off-piste, I would imagine you'd be able to do a day tour with some tuition thrown in anywhere.

That's a reasonable approach and will give you the most flexibility for sure, just be conscious that you may end up with a guide who just wants to get some mileage in. A proper backcountry avalanche course actually doesn't contain a huge amount of backcountry riding, at least not as much as you might first expect. A lot of time can be spent learning some basic snow science, then looking at route choice, digging and analysing snow pits and doing stability tests etc. This inevitably eats in to downhill time. Thats not to say guides won't do any of this stuff, but I'd go for formal lessons if that is what you are really after.

Personally I would avoid any course (unless I wanted to become an avalanche forecaster) that puts too much emphasis on digging snow pits, snow-pack analysis etc. No one I know does this on their typical day out. I dug one the other day because I knew we were planning on continuing up the same angle of snow for 300m to get to a climb and it had snowed a bit recently, but in 3 seasons I've never seen or heard of anyone doing one before skiing. You could easily pick up most of this from books and by going to the the Avalanche Academy free lecture which runs every Tuesday (iirc)

Now, what I feel is important in an avalanche awareness course is practical, useful and quick methods of assessing the snowpack visually and tying this  in with the day's avalanche forecast. I.e. how to spot wind loaded slopes, testing small "prone" slopes to see how they react. Tìm Blakemore (an associate of the Avalanche Academy in Chamonix) did a course just like this for us 2 winters ago. If you have time for a 2 or more day course then snow pack assessment might be useful but the first and most important thing is to know how to spot bad slopes, check how they are, ski them safely (group management etc.) and, if worst comes to worst, find a victim and get them out.

If you end up in Cham this season, gimme a shout and I can run you through the basics and/or just show you some fun spots. Chamonix is shit for learning, but my 63 yr old mum had a fun week on the baby slopes, so it is possible.

Alison Culshaw runs a great off-piste clinic clicky here

P.S. if you do choose the "go out with a guide" option. You are paying them, they should do exactly what you ask unless you are in a group session and then, obviously, it will be a bit more "structured".

[ChrisC]

Proper kit means a modern transciever and a metal shovel btw. Avalanche debris is often hard; I watched my son trying to dig in hard snow with a mate's plastic shovel the other day and it was an eye-opener. Not funny. At all. Metal shovel. Are we clear on this? Good.

If touring with a mate who has a plastic shovel, all you have to do is swap for your metal shovel in the car park at the start of the trip.  Next time they will probably have a metal one too...

Avalanche debris can be like concrete.  If you've never skied or walked over one then it's worth having a kick of the stuff a snow plough chucks at the side of the road - moving snow melts then refreezes in lumps that a plastic blade is not going to cut though well.

[bigtuboflard]

Agree with that Fultonius, its all about getting the balance I think though (though my interest in snow science is based on an earth science degree and with some focus on alpine environments so i quite like the detail). Pits are useful as you say if you're on a similar aspect or as a good means of getting a feel for the snowpack in an area at the start of the week (though the internet has made that a whole lot easier). Agree about reading slopes and loading features too, and simple stability tests even with a ski pole really help too, thats what i was kind of getting at (not very well), and trying to recommend avoiding doing a quick 10 minute transceiver search followed by laps off piste (which don't help you learn). Like i said in an earlier post, the longer the course i think the better, gives a chance not to rush things and cover a lot of the subjects in depth (like the course I did in Fernie some years back).

The Chamonix avalanche academy free lectures sound like a good starting point too.

[ChrisC]

Alison Culshaw runs a great off-piste clinic clicky here

Definitely the best ski tuition I've had. 

The ski performance for mountaineers course is amazing value, it didn't feel like a group lesson - more like being taught individually as part of a group.  Failing that then a couple of 1/2 day private lessons are far more valuable than any ESF 'follow me in a big group for the week' tuition.

[Paul B]

If you end up in Cham this season, gimme a shout and I can run you through the basics and/or just show you some fun spots. Chamonix is shit for learning, but my 63 yr old mum had a fun week on the baby slopes, so it is possible.

Thanks although I think it's unlikely that Cham will be our chosen destination. We're still trying to decide where or not skiing or climbing is the way to go.

 

Currently Alpe D'Huez and Serre Chevalier have some interesting offers on. For the former I found these guys:
http://stance-snow.com/index.htm (music autoplay).

who seem to be well reviewed.

[SA Chris]

I must admit to getting mildly irked every time fresh snow gets automatically called powder, especially here in Scotland.

[Fultonius]

:

I think you and Nat's next trip should be to Niseko, Paul. The right kind of expensive for dual-income young professionals like you two, a moderately interesting cultural tick and for the rest of your life you can annoy people when out ski-ing by saying "they wouldn't really call this powder in Hokkaido".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Funny, I freind of mine just went with his missus for a "trip of a lifetime" and were based in Niseko. They said it gets tracked out faster than Grands Montets (i.e. tracked out at 09:30...) and is rammed full of Aussi-douchebags. They had a much better time at the smaller, less known resorts. Horses for courses I suppose...

[Paul B]

We've booked Alpe D'Huez for the week of the 22nd after the deal we found was reduced further.

I've arranged to be on a course with http://stance-snow.com/ whilst Nat is in Ski School etc. which should be interesting!

[Fultonius]

22nd of March? We were just over in Les Deux Alpes and the snow base is good. If you get fresh snow (which is forecast for later in the week) then you should have a great time. Not far to go to La Grave if you fancy a day with a guide at a resort with no pistes! We had a day there earlier this week and, while the snow was totally tracked out, it was still a cool place to ski.

[Paul B]

22nd of March? We were just over in Les Deux Alpes and the snow base is good.

Yup and that's what I like to hear! The 22nd seems like a good week for deals if anyone is looking, the weeks either side are considerably more money! I'm not sure I'll get away with a day trip to La Grave unfortunately.

[Fultonius]

I've not been to Alpe D'Huez, but as far as I'm aware there should be plenty to keep you occupied for the week.

[SA Chris]

If the stuff off the back of the glacier is open (which it should be) there'll be loads to keep you busy. There's a shabby climbing wall in the sports centre, but don't expect much.

[Paul B]

Looks like there's 40cm or so forecast for Sat (when we arrive)... I'm not going to be putting my climbing boots in, the chalet is fully catered and I intend to eat (and drink) my way to good value for money (which on any ski holiday is a challenge).

[SA Chris]

Seriously don't expect much, a bit of traversing? Although it may well have had an upgrade since i was there (in 1989!)

[bigtuboflard]

There is a nice large outdoor pool in the middle of Alpe D'Huez too but don't bother packing shorts, for some reason its speedos only 

Only spent a week there but from memory its a nice enough resort, big enough to keep you busy. not much tree line skiing though from memory so if the weather gets stuck in its a bit of a white out. And my only other abiding memory was the icy tunnel at the top near the glacier, not much fun on a snowboard

[Paul B]

It turned out the reason this past week was so cheap was that it was European Gay Ski Week, not that it bothered me (in fact if it saves me money I'll seek out Gay ski week next week).

We got back yesterday after perhaps the best week of skiing I've ever had. We arrived to find it snowing (heavily) which continued for two days and although that meant poor visibility (and a difficult start for Nat), it meant that come Tues (when I'd booked for my backcountry day) the snow was magnificent.

As the snow was so good and the guide/instructor (from Stance) clearly didn't want to waste the conditions (they hadn't had snow for a while and the weather had been quite warm) the introduction which covered the transceivers was more than brief.
There was me and three others, two of which were told they couldn't continue after the first section we skied (I was quite shocked that they went solely on a verbal statement of ability, no short section of piste, nothing).

After that we spent a lot of time around the Alpette/Vaujinay area following some of the lines shown here (G to start with):
http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Isere-Drome/Alpe-D-Huez-Grandes-Rousses-Off-Piste

Fantastic. The hire shop were happy to swap my piste ski's for something more suited. This (obviously) made a huge difference and the feeling of moving fast on fresh powder was amazing.

I'm fairly certain that it's the best money (a whopping 55E) I've spent on skiing, ever. Now, I wouldn't venture out on my own/with friends with my still limited knowledge but the advice on technique made a HUGE difference (coming from mainly skiing pistes) on all types of snow. Also, I'm pretty certain that it's something I now want to pursue. I regret not booking more than one session as they were full for the rest of the week.

Nat also had a great time and progressed really well (it helped that she got a cracking ESF instructor which is always a lottery). On the last day I spent the afternoon taking Nat down all of the blacks that didn't feature moguls (i.e. Tunnel), which she skied comfortably, I didn't even feel the need to babysit.

Thanks for all of the input/advice on this thread.

My leg gave me quite a lot of issues with the hire boots for the first morning so I'll hopefully soon be able to invest in some myself...

[bigtuboflard]

the feeling of moving fast on fresh powder was amazing.

Powder skiing and boarding is dangerously addictive 

[Paul B]

Are there any sites (that people can point me to) online or heaven forbid, a book which has information about the off-piste potential in areas/resorts?

On another note, I wonder when I'll first see someone climbing with a counterbalanced pole + GoPro attached to their helmet (there were many of these in France).

[SA Chris]

http://pistehors.com/

[SA Chris]

Closer to home

http://www.steepscotland.info/index/

Gully skiing season is in full swing!