[Johnny Brown]

I refer you back to my earlier laughing stock comment.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this, it's that using a ladder in a conspicuous spot is likely to bring the internet ethics police to pore over your efforts far more closely than you might want...

[SA Chris]

Hang on, is this ladder not even to try the section above the break??

Can I change my vote to "Shark is a fanny?"

[GCW]

Ludicrous. Traversing off at the break is just that. Traverse in and work the top first if you want, but no top no tick.

Can you have the tick if you do the first half, traverse off and rest, then traverse back in and top out?   

[Fiend]

No. Don't you have any soul.


I'd much rather our hallowed leader is using a ladder to work the problem and is 100% going to climb West Side Story, rather than is not using a ladder and only "might" climb West Side Story after doing the start.

[a dense loner]

Is it ok for him to leave a rope down the top then as per new hard routes?

[Johnny Brown]

If he wants to maintain any credibility I'd suggest ditching the ladder and manning up for the topout, like EVERYONE ELSE IN THE LAST THIRTY YEARS HAS DONE.

[Doylo]

If he wants to maintain any credibility I'd suggest ditching the ladder and manning up for the topout, like EVERYONE ELSE IN THE LAST THIRTY YEARS HAS DONE.

Not strictly true. There was a period when not topping out was in fashion. A British gal got a write up in OTE when she hadn't topped out.

[shark]

I refer you back to my earlier laughing stock comment.

It's a cross we young independent thinkers have to bear

[Johnny Brown]

There was a period when not topping out was in fashion

No. There was a period before the internet when ignorant cowards claimed something they hadn't done.

[Bonjoy]

The top is not a foregone conclusion when you get there. First time I got there I tried the top and failed. I then worked it out after traversing in and did it in one on another day. If WSS is near the top of your bouldering grade then the odds of fluffing the top are fairly high, especially if you haven't done it before. In other words it isn't the end of the hard climbing.

[Johnny Brown]

Even after many ascents, I'd put it at 5c/6a not 5b/c. And it's quite high up, which is a big part of why this problem is such a classic.

[dave]

I love the side pull in the flake at the top, both for the shape and the fact it's where it is. One of my favourite holds.

[i_a_coops]

I don't think anyone should face abuse for this sort of thing. I used to think ethics were important, then I took a fall from not-that-much-higher than WSS onto lots of pads and shattered my foot. Result: two really painful operations and spending months unable to walk and off my tits on painkillers. There's no way I'm risking doing the same thing again so what does it matter if Shark takes a ladder to Burbage/I try and flash Braille Trail on toprope/Barrows puts a ladder up his bum as long as it doesn't fuck the problem up for me to try in whatever style I want?

I've always thought the ethics police were in favour of 'going climbing for the love of it' etc. and very down on grade-chasing, but 'your balls must be smaller than mine because you don't feel the same way as me about risking your ankles on the top of WSS' is just as willytastic as 'Look at me I climb 8c+ my dick must be huge'.

My dick is not that big btw, and I haven't done WSS.

[Stubbs]

then I took a fall from not-that-much-higher than WSS onto lots of pads and shattered my foot

How did this happen, was there a gap in the pads or something? What did you fall off?

[i_a_coops]

I fell off from below the shothole on Masters Edge. My foot popped, I had a heel round the arete, so I fell slightly out of control (not excessively) and landed with most of my weight on one foot. There was then a loud bang and a lot of swearing.

We had 8 pads underneath it btw, and I landed on them, and I'm light and normally bounce well. Pads are not a guarantee of safety!

[Jaspersharpe]

I can see your point but i don't think anyone is willy waving about topping out a 7B+ (well maybe JB is but...) more just saying that you can't tick the problem without climbing all of it.

[i_a_coops]

well maybe JB is but...

 

[Johnny Brown]

I've always thought the ethics police were in favour of 'going climbing for the love of it' etc. and very down on grade-chasing

In my experience ethical transgressions tend to occur because folk are desperate to tick a certain problem or grade. People 'climbing for the love of it' tend to realise that satisfaction doesn't come from dragging things down to your level.

I don't see how topping out WSS is willy-waving when that is the only accepted definition of having done it? If that makes me elitist so be it. I'm not sure how you can have a sport without elitism.

[Johnny Brown]

just saying that you can't tick the problem without climbing all of it

Exactly.

[i_a_coops]

Maybe I used too many penis metaphors.

If Shark climbs to the break on WSS without a ladder, and is happy that he did some moves that he found hard and enjoyable, I still don't think calling him a coward is constructive.

[John Gillott]

Shark wants to climb to the break using a ladder. The whole point is to get a good feel for the third side-pull. The obvious solution is for the manly, 76kg beast that is JB, to help out with the traditional tactic of pressing Shark into the wall via the latter's backside. Since JB is not that tall, we'll allow him a pile of mats to do it.

[i_a_coops]

In my experience ethical transgressions tend to occur because folk are desperate to tick a certain problem or grade. People 'climbing for the love of it' tend to realise that satisfaction doesn't come from dragging things down to your level.

Don't agree in this case - if Shark doesn't top out despite knowing that no one will accept he's ticked it, or respect his usage of a ladder, but is still happy, I think that's a brilliant example of someone genuinely climbing for the moves not the tick!

[Johnny Brown]

We all get more cowardly as we get older, I know I am. Unfortunately success on many gritstone climbs often involves a bit of boldness, WSS being one of those. Pretending things are otherwise is pointless.

I would add I've never seen anyone fall off the topout. It's one move, the left hand is big, the right positive, if you don't like it you can back off.

Happy to push Shark's backside in anytime. I also have an extensive range of sequences I will make freely available, on the occasion I don't have to share the crag with a ladder. I will build Shark my own ladder, made of beta and positive vibes.

[Fiend]

In terms of ethics, it's always worth remembering there is the choice simply not to do something if it's too risky. If leading Braille Trail is too risky, one can simply not climb it. If highballing WSS is too risky, one can simply not climb it either.

[cowboyhat]

 

Happy to push Shark's backside in anytime. I also have an extensive range of sequences I will make freely available, on the occasion I don't have to share the crag with a ladder. I will build Shark my own ladder, made of beta and positive vibes.

He also needs a stick brush.