[ardeer]

unless it uses the french font system im gonna assume that this is a nigerian phishing scam

[Dave Flanagan]

........  about 5.8/ 5.9 where US grades are used for bouldering and is anything from HVS to VD on lead depending on nerves but more like the crux of an average protected E1 on a top rope and probably similar to f6aish moves unless its super cruxy.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Offwidth]

More debugged than cleared up as then you have the skill set issues. Beginners take longer to learn some stuff on real rock in the easy grades  like pure smearing, mantels and jams and it helps to tell them that in advance so the keen ones listen, watch practice and learn. Still while they lack these skills grades will feel wierd. Not so weird as Font though where this skill argument has been used as an excuse and nearly all the easy stuff is way harder than graded due to polish and erosion, even with pof, ironically except jams which are soft graded around 4  in font.

[Dave Flanagan]

I don't think it would be possible to clear up the skillset issue in two dimensional space. Five might do it?

[kelvin]

Ahh, the good old 5 cube. Not seen that in a while 

[Offwidth]

I don't think it would be possible to clear up the skillset issue in two dimensional space. Five might do it?

Jokes aside, the issues are easy to explain even though the interaction is complex. It's just Ive never seen this done well for beginner bouldering, Grades will always seem odd on different types of problem but should be logical on similar styled problems and looking back with the benefit of hindsight. Any book looking at the reality of bouldering for those starting off from the user perspective will be much more successful.

Another key point which links with the grade mess faced by beginners is to focus on the enjoyment of movement and problem solving. Grade obsession will lead to disappointment.

[Dave Flanagan]

I'm not sure that most beginners would be interested. It's pretty easy to understand why grades aren't that accurate, delving into all the details of exactly why may just be confusing. Plus isn't trying to fully rationalise grades a symptom of l'obsession.

[Offwidth]

I found it always helped greatly when introducing people to bouldering. Crap grades for no good reason (much more so in bouldering than in trad climbing or sports climbing) and grade complexities due to inexperience in key skills, are real issues they commonly face so why avoid discussing it in a book designed to help introduce them to the game? More often than not bouldering beginners climb before they become keen on bouldering so they understand how other grades work and so things can seem especially confusing and its nice to know where its the grade, not them, that is the issue.

[Dave Flanagan]

I found it always helped greatly when introducing people to bouldering. Crap grades for no good reason (much more so in bouldering than in trad climbing or sports climbing) and grade complexities due to inexperience in key skills, are real issues they commonly face so why avoid discussing it in a book designed to help introduce them to the game? More often than not bouldering beginners climb before they become keen on bouldering so they understand how other grades work and so things can seem especially confusing and its nice to know where its the grade, not them, that is the issue.

You might have a point but it's doesn't make much sense to on one hand say don't worry about grades and then spend ages going on about them.

[Offwidth]

I take it all back... V2 is 5.11a in the US (right at the bottom of the link) ... some people will be crying here when a few easier walls shift grades to match .

http://www.climbingbusinessjournal.com/tape-to-no-tape-in-6-steps/

and the canadians agree:

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ContentPrimary/Learn/Climbing/IntroToClimbing/ClimbingGradeConversion.jsp

Or even 5.11b/c
http://www.do-not-panic.com/2012/03/v-scale-and-yds-conversion-chart.html

I've also been enlightened to learn about spot grades:

http://spotsettingblog.wordpress.com/spot-grading-system/

This is a great game:

VB as 10c/E2 (scroll down a bit ..I thought the earlier url was ironic fun!)

http://www.spadout.com/wiki/index.php/Climbing_Grades#Sandbagging