[witb994543]

I'm posting on here using a 'nom de guerre', partly through shame and because I want to speak freely.

Does anyone have advice or has anyone been through something similar...

I never thought I had a drink problem, I've always been the life and soul of the party, or so I thought. Ever since being young I've been known to have a drink in my hand, getting bladdered was just what everyone did, right? Which was fine during uni, and even a bit after, but slowly people started to grow up and reduce or cut it out, act responsibly. Moderation.
Not me. Every opportunity to have one too many has been taken up. Getting pissed has always been normal. Egging people on, topping glasses up, shots before pints etc...
All of my biggest regrets have come from drinking too much, things I say, things I do, apologies I have to make. Feeling shit. I don't drink every day, I'm not physically dependent, but I can never have just one. Psychologically dependent? Maybe, I don't know. My life seems punctuated by "I didn't mean it". But I do it again.
I've never been anyone else.
I've recently come to a point very close to losing everything.
My drinking has come to a point where I've hurt those closest to me one too many times.
So,  I've decided to try to pack it in, but I don't know how to be in those situations and not have a glass in my hand.
I don't have coping strategies.
I've never been a non-drinker. How do people deal with this?

Advice?

[psychomansam]

Since UKB is currently being spammed, could you just reply in a way to show you're made of less processed meat.

Cheers.

[Fiend]

I trust the OP is genuine. Otherwise it is one of the most convoluted and brilliant ways of getting me to buy viagra / invest in a Nigerian bank ever.

No personal experience on this but I do have a long term friend who regularly went off the rails at uni, mostly on drink. His solution was simply to give up completely - he's had a couple of periods in the decade since where he's done some social drinking with a partner, but aside from that has stayed tee-total. That seems to be the way for him, not even one little drink (apart from the odd San Miguel 0,0%), and he stays out of trouble that way rather than occasional drinks in moderation (which is what I do).

GL.

[witb994543]

Since UKB is currently being spammed, could you just reply in a way to show you're made of less processed meat.
Cheers.

I am, it appears, a human being...
albeit struggling at the moment.

Thx Fiend

[webbo]

PM lagers as he's a specalist in the Alcohol treatment field. See the thread on mental health if you don't know who he is.

[witb994543]

Hi Webbo,
Thanks, I'll make contact with Lagers, I do know who he is, hopefully he has some good advice.
If anyone else has experience, I'd be interested for strategies,
Thx
WITB

[psychomansam]

I'm not an expert, just someone with some overlapping experiences.

I too used to be the one fuelling the pub crawls, encouraging acts of drinking bravado, and ending up with similar regrets.

There was a time in my life where alcohol actually helped me with some serious issues around repression. More generally, it can have positive effects as a social lubricant and a form of catharsis.

It is also an extremely toxic and harmful drug which does a huge amount to harm the physical and mental health of people in the UK and elsewhere. In the UK it's quite easy to sleepwalk into an alcohol problem because so much of society is either on the edge of one, or living in one already. I saw numerous friends at uni fucking things up with alcohol. I followed suit.

I originally quit alcohol because of my mental health. These days, I'm doing a little better mentally - partly as a result of avoiding alcohol, but the thing which stops me drinking now is my physical health. Health problems originally brought on by alcohol abuse have been kicking back over the last 15 months, sometimes meaning I can't exercise, and it's now highly inadvisable for me to drink.

As I say, this advice is largely just from my own experience. Take it or leave it.

You need to think rationally about your situation to avoid temptation and to make your life better:

Ask why you're drinking and face up to the underlying issues. Are you looking for friends, feeling lost, depressed, stressed, trying to escape? It can be different for everyone, but there are often underlying issues which lead to alcohol abuse.

Realise that alcohol is a highly addictive drug and creates dependence physiologically, but also psychologically, replacing friends, counselling or more healthy forms of escapism and relaxation.

Be totally honest about the harm it's doing to your relationships. Also consider looking into the physical harm it can do in the long term. Got gastritis yet?

So, now you're committed to avoiding alcohol, here's my take on how to do it:

Avoid bars altogether. What's the fucking point anyway? Find something better to do.

If you want to 'go out' to meet people socially, go to the pub. The culture is less based on alcoholism and a wider range of drinks are considered acceptable. I tend to go for a pack of crisps and a blackcurrant&soda, and anyone with a problem can grow up. You may prefer coke, as this weaker drug is considered more socially acceptable. As I mentioned above, society is fucked.

Get into alternative drinks, even tea, coffee and whatever else to provide alternatives, for around the house as well as elsewhere.I went through a ginger beer phase, a DnB phase, a cloudy lemonade phase, drank shitloads of them - it meant I had a pint of something to hold/neck when I had mates round.

Do more exercise. It gives you reason to stay healthy, keeps you busy and provides catharsis and then relaxation via endorphins. Yoga is good for the mind, or try running, preferably in the hills.

Find new hobbies and interests to replace the one you're losing. Take up photography, or blogging, or whatever the fuck you fancy. I study a lot.

Make friends who aren't going to try to get you to drink or pull you out into environments you don't want to be in (bars, clubbing?). I'm not saying to get rid of friends, but it can sometimes be worth pushing out into some new social circles where drinking isn't such a big thing. Also, think about being honest with your friends, certainly anyone close to you. Tell them your drinking was becoming a problem, or that it was worrying you, or that it was turning you into a dick. Perhaps give them a time-frame they can understand - "I'm not going to drink for a year".

Use the time to focus on and invest in relationships that matter, including family. This will increase chances, of love, fulfilment, happiness etc. Relationships can be very grounding. In the case of significant others, this also has the added bonus of increasing possibility/rates of sex. Which is nice.

Most of all, just make sure there's someone you can talk to about it. Family, partner friend, counsellor, fuck me even a vicar if that's your bag.

Be proud of yourself.

 

[tomtom]

I've no personal experience to share on this - sorry -

but starting this thread - asking the question - strikes me as a really important step.

Good luck.

[witb994543]

Psychomansam:

Thanks for your reply, it really is helpful to know I'm not the only one to have fucked up sometime. And I really think I've fucked up this time.
The foreseeable will be trying to repair some of the.damage I've caused other people.
It's going to be a long road but total avoidance is the only way for me, I know I can't stop once I've started, so I can't have any at all. For me I know this will be hard.some good practical stuff there too.
Thank you

[witb994543]

I've no personal experience to share on this - sorry -

but starting this thread - asking the question - strikes me as a really important step.

Good luck.

Thanks TomTom 

[SA Chris]

Not sure what else I can say other than best of luck and be strong. Going to be especially tough for the next month, but keep reminding yourself why you are doing it.
Also I think the "nom de post" is probably unnecessary; everyone here is open-minded and supportive, especially when it's "one of our own", but obviously it's your choice. Shout if you need a stern talking to, I'm sure someone on here can talk sense into you, or take you climbing.

[fatneck]

Never had a medical diagnosis of alcoholism but used to drink a lot, daily, and like you it caused issues.

Also had several episodes of issues with "other" drugs (ending in various types of strife including broken relationships, court appearances, criminal record and massive debt) and did undergo counselling for this, free, through a recovery charity. It was unbelievably helpful. I would thoroughly encourage you to seek professional help of some form. Am sure Lagers can point you in the right direction...

As other have said, props for taking the biggest step and saying you have a problem.

Best of luck...

[witb994543]

in reply to SA Chris and Fatneck:
Hi Chris, I suppose this problem for me is pretty personal and I can't much deal with people knowing right now. I posted for the very reason that UKB is a supportive place and I can rely on non-judgement or at least silence if people think I'm a dick.
It's just that I'm not ready. I want to have achieved something before opening up I think.
Trigger points are going to be hardest, gatherings, work trips will be a test, Fridays, Saturdays, and meeting up with certain friends is pretty much a no-no.
Thanks for your advice, it really does help.
I'm trying to tackle it in my usual way by throwing myself into having a detailed plan (spreadsheet and Gantt chart overkill?) and getting a bit OCD about avoidance, trying to ignore temptation as much as I can. Keep my mind active. Most the time it's ok. Evenings are shit but I'm trying to focus on the fact that I've been given a chance to make a positive change, looking forward as much as possible, but having different (better? ) expectation of life without it.
Each day and all that shit. I need to get used to it.

[tc]

I had my last drink 22 years ago. There are very good reasons for that, which I'm not going to share here as I don't feel that it's appropriate. Suffice to say, I've been exactly where you are now so I know what you're going through. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can sort it out on your own. You can't. You need help. The good news is that there's plenty of help available out there. You have made an important first step admitting you have a problem. Good luck my friend.   

[Durbs]

+1 in the encouragement stakes. First step is the most imporatant.

I've got 2 friends who are/were in a similar place. One in particular sounds very similar to your situation. Doesn't have to drink, but when they do, they go big. Without fail.

They've asked me before how I go out and don't get twatted, and I summed it up by saying "I don't go out to get drunk", which is what they definitely do. Both of my friends who did this - one has completely stopped drinking, he just can't (for whatever reason) do moderation.
The other is considering it.

So, sorry, no advice from you, but a reassurance that you're not the only one

[fatdoc]

What tc said. Seek professional advice.

Respect for making the step.

In an Internet communication culture of less forums and more superficial social media I think you will  find the little niche that is UKB a supportive community.

People only get hot under the collar about donkey marks, chipping, grading systems and how cook cheese on toast.

God, I still love this place.

Good luck mate.

[lagerstarfish]

firstly - my own drinking behaviour is odd, but I'm OK with it - I really, really, really enjoy booze and it causes me relatively few problems overall.

So,  I've decided to try to pack it in, but I don't know how to be in those situations and not have a glass in my hand.
I don't have coping strategies.
I've never been a non-drinker. How do people deal with this?

Advice?

socialising without alcohol when it has been your way for all your adult life? it won't come easy - sam's advice to avoid certain situations (at least for a while) is spot on. however, with hard work you will be able to enjoy such occasions without drink. it will take time and you will, at times, lose sight of the whole point of trying. have a script prepared so you don't have to think of how to respond to offers of drinks - go as far as visualising yourself turning down free booze - even practice saying stuff out loud at home.

I have a few potentially useful things to say - without having a person in front of me to structure my approach, this may come out a bit disjointed - I present no science here, just what I think works

stuff I think

you can change the way you behave and this can also change the way your emotions work, but this takes time. This applies to all aspects of behaviour/reaction as well as substance use. Alcohol changes the way your emotions and feelings work, so making significant changes whilst you are drinking (even occasionally) is less likely to work - the drinks you do have will remind you about the good bits of drinking whilst being able to forget the bad - that's the "beauty" of drink

Alcohol affects different people in different ways. Some of us get a proper endorphin style rush of euphoria, others just feel a bit fuzzy and then sleepy. Trying to compare yourself with people around you may not be helpful. Even if you do find lots of common ground with other people's drinking experience, remember that we are all individuals ("I'm not!") - we never get to experience each other's thoughts/sensations - I don't even believe the rest of you are sentient

"decided to pack it in" - how did you decide? strong feelings of regret, shame, loss etc can prompt a feeling of absolute certainty that you will never do XYZ again. these things fade with time as you may have noticed. 
Time to apply some method, logic, rigour and anything else that helps overcome human frailty. Do a proper, written cost benefit analysis of your options - pros and cons of carrying on as you are as well as pros and cons of packing it in. don't kid yourself that there are no good sides to drinking - be honest about how good it can make you feel and how it helps in social situations - a half-truth/white-lie based decision is worth very little if you're not a conservative MP. you should make the pros and cons assessment (decisional balance) an ongoing thing to be added to indefinitely - review it regularly and thus remind yourself what you are trying to do

targets/goals - how long am I going to pack it in for? how will I decide whether I have changed enough in myself to try drinking again? how will i decide that my drinking is problematic in the future?  you get the idea

planning - plan how your time will be spent. if it's a social thing, plan what time you will finish, how you will get home, what you will do when you get home. if you find yourself with any "grey time" or vagueness, that alcohol loving imp at the back of your head will have some very convincing ideas about how best to use that time. this applies to everything. plan and schedule as much as possible - and visualise how these plans will happen - see yourself walking past the pub on the way back from the wall

positives - giving someone a bollocking or nagging them about their drinking has never worked for anyone ever (citation needed). as human beings, if someone tells us not to do something we feel the urge to kick back at them and do it anyway. the same thing applies to self imposed threats/worries. "ooh, i mustn't drink because I'll die of liver failure" isn't enough to stop people. "right then,  I won't have a drink after work because it always leads to more and 30% of the time that leads to me beating up my partner who I love more than life itself" doesn't work either. what does work is acknowledging the good stuff that comes about as a result of not drinking. take time to appreciate how good it feels to wake up feeling alert and well rested - and all the other stuff that you get - better sex, more productive work, look better, fatter bank account etc etc.
one of the things that alcohol does is make it difficult for you to enjoy stuff that isn't alcohol - alcohol produces a nice feeling every time - it does exactly what it says on the tin - real life events aren't so effective (wanking may be similar) so it is well worth taking the time to appreciate those moments when you do get a good feeling that has nothing to do with booze. it is even worth thinking back to how good you felt when such an event happened - i mean really think about how it felt, where you were, what it smelled like , sounded like. by filling your head with nice feelings that have nothing to do with alcohol, you make alcohol less important

still with positives... the best help you can get from people you know or love is getting praise (or at least acknowledgement) that you are doing well in changing your behaviour. This might not come easily to people who feel repeatedly let down or betrayed, but if they want to know what they can do to help - that is it. they will not know how hard you are trying unless you tell them. don't worry about sounding like a selfish spoilt brat who has had his toys taken away - that is how you feel - tell them - if they care/love they want to know what you feel, that is what it means. maybe wait until a bit of trust has been rebuilt first, eh? they might have heard all this before?

any questions?

seriously: it's meant to be hard changing these things. if you don't find it hard then there's something wrong with you.

I'll write more when I get a chance

I appreciate that not all of this will have been directly relevant to the original post

[mindfull]

Hey man,

I never participate in online discussions and only made an account for this. I'm a climber and have been dependant of alcochol and other stuff for years. Now I'm clean for 9 months.

You can PM me.

Good luck.

B

[lagerstarfish]

something else I thought of

making changes on your own is difficult - peer group stuff has a good track record

AA is the best known. the twelve step model works great for many people. not everyone likes it. issues people have with it include finding it hard to get into the whole "higher power" thing. some people come away from meetings thinking that the whole thing was like the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch, leading them to think "I'm not as bad as that I shouldn't be here". these things can be dealt with by going to a different meeting with different people. got to be worth a go if doing it on your own hasn't worked.

the other group that I see people doing well in is the SMART recovery group. their structure is slightly different to AA. check it out on line.

one to one help is well worth trying. if you don't want to use statutory services - and so have something on your medical record - then you can go to separately funded organisations/charities for help.

good luck

don't give up

if you lapse don't be tempted to think "fuck it, I've blown, I might as well give up trying". just get back on where you left off and reflect on what went wrong and learn from the experience.

[dave]

Respect for making the step.

In an Internet communication culture of less forums and more superficial social media I think you will  find the little niche that is UKB a supportive community.

I'll drink to that.

With respect to mates who might drag you out boozing, if you're open with them about the problem and they still try to get you out then you'd have to question if they're real mates anyway.

Good luck.

[psychomansam]

I agree with everything lagers said, except for the the bit about wanking. That shit was just stupid.

Also, I agree with Dave. Part of the reason I could go to the pub sometimes was that my mate, who was always buying people drinks and pushing them into getting pissed, totally respected my choice and would, in a friendly way, tell other people to back off if they wanted me to drink. Have a word. If they don't get it, keep your distance.

If it helps, after a year off, I found I could occasionally have one, in the right social situation (i.e where others were just having one). I still wanted many, but in those situations could handle it.

It's been about 4 years now. My stomach stops me drinking most of the time, but I don't have any problems with having one or two when my body allows. I still occasionally want to have many, but it's no problem.

It helps a lot that my underlying mental situation has improved.

[witb994543]

To tc, Durbs, fatdoc, lagers, mindfull, Dave, psychomansam, thank you for your replies, each one of them makes me more resolute to be a better person.

Some things I can relate to:

how did you decide? strong feelings of regret, shame, loss etc can prompt a feeling of absolute certainty that you will never do XYZ again. these things fade with time as you may have noticed. 
Time to apply some method, logic, rigour and anything else that helps overcome human frailty.

Yeah, I've had the transitory feelings of guilt, even stopped drinking for a while, but sure enough I've managed to convince myself things weren't that bad (could I remember them anyway), I just needed to get some moderation back... I can't.
I wrote down all the reasons why I need to take the course of action I am on a spreadsheet earlier this wk and they all made sense, only frequently looking at it and re-invoking the feelings keeps my motivation going. It does help.
I've not got a timeline, 6 months seems realistic

what does work is acknowledging the good stuff that comes about as a result of not drinking. take time to appreciate how good it feels to wake up feeling alert and well rested - and all the other stuff that you get
...t is well worth taking the time to appreciate those moments when you do get a good feeling that has nothing to do with booze

Fuck me, this is good, you're right, never really appreciated this before.
Sounds stupid, but I've always thought the best times are after having a drink, usually socialising.

maybe wait until a bit of trust has been rebuilt first, eh? they might have heard all this before?

This will take time, I'm on my own for the short term, although ukb is proving to be a crutch...
I'll be open with mates, in due course, at the moment I'm avoiding any situation which might lead to going near an establishment. this is something I need to sort for the moment either solo or maybe in a group, I'll check out your suggestions Lagers, it would probably be easier with professionals...
I'm overwhelmed with the support on here  It truly helps, you don't realise how much, or how grateful I am.
It's only been a week, but it's 11pm on a Saturday night and I'm not pissed. I can't remember the last time this happened.

[rich d]

Not in your situation, but it's got to take guts fessing up like this and making a decision to make it better. Good luck with it.

[lagerstarfish]

something that you will probably end up thinking about is non-alcoholic beer

playing with fire - could go either way

from what I see, it is best used as a symbolic thing to make you feel like you fit in better in certain situations - even then it can remind you about all the things you used to like about the real stuff

using it as a regular drink can go badly for people wanting total abstinence


playing with fire

[mindfull]

Hey R,

I want to reply on your PM, but you have me blocked.

Grts