[tomtom]

Theres probably a route called this - but thats not what this thread is about (yet - knowing UKB... )

Its about the most middle aged kind of thread I think I could come up with but here goes... (breathes deeply..)

We've just acquired a multi fandangled breadmaker - and I'm going to give it a shot in the next couple of days. So I wondered if anyone had any favourites/recommendations/things I should try?

I quite like heavy bread (it makes Rye bread apparently..) and I'm not really into fruity/seedy things (though could be persuaded). Non hallucinogenic recipes only please...

Right, I'm off to ready my guardian then darn some socks.

[Fultonius]

I love sourdough, but it's a pain to keep the starter going. I've not even tried!

I did make a sourdough(ish) loaf from a bag of pre-mixed Sheepherder Bread that I picked up in Bishop. Reet tasty it was. I'm only 30...

[rich d]

Get Richard Bertinet's book Dough, then throw the bread maker in the bin

[rich d]

These were all done using the bertinet book recipes, sorry for the twitter links

pic.twitter.com/8X5EPXvaU7 walnut rye bread

pic.twitter.com/8X5EPXvaU7  cider rye bread

pic.twitter.com/3ClUqDeBLY bacon and red onion rye bread

[andy popp]

Get Richard Bertinet's book Dough, then throw the bread maker in the bin

This really.  The pleasure of bread making is as much in the doing as the eating. 

[tomtom]

The weighing, measuring, pouring and then pressing a button you mean?

[andy popp]

Something like that ...

[205Chris]

I've got into baking / bread making recently. I'm really hoping that this isn't the onset of middle age.

I've been using the Paul Hollywood book 'How to Bake'  which covers most types of bread. I will have to check out the Bertinet book.

At the risk of sounding snobbish I would echo the comments on ditch the breadmaker. I think there's a myth around bread that it takes a lot of time and effort to make. It's true that it needs time to prove but the actual 'hands on' time is fairly low. For a typical loaf you're looking at:

~10 mins: Weigh ingredients + knead
~1 hour: proving
~5 mins: knock back and shape
~1 hour:proving
~40 minutes: bake.

Total hands on time in all that is only 15 minutes. If you do find the need for kitchen gadgetry then a Kenwood Chef with a dough hook would probably be a better investment. Mixing wet doughs (ciabatta / fougasse etc.) by hand can be a real pain.

Bread freezes fairly well so you can make a few loaves at a time. If you're mixing by hand or with a mixer it's almost no more effort to make double quantities.

Once baked resist the temptation to start eating it straight away, let it rest for a while first.

Sourdough is really satisfying to make, although Fultonius is right that keeping the starter going in an optimum state for baking is hard work. It also tends to go off sooner than normal bread and is best eaten within 24 hours of baking I find.

If you are into Rye breads you'll probably find they need longer proving times than a more straightforward white loaf for example.

A word of warning - once you've got into home baked bread you'll never to back to shop bought stuff.

[tomtom]

That's why I'm keen to experiment - shop bread is usually rubbish airy and very unsatisfying..

[rich d]

Mixing wet doughs (ciabatta / fougasse etc.) by hand can be a real pain.

That was why the berinet book and method were revolutionary for me. Really wet doughs, no knocking back, a French fold and not kneading has changed the way I make bread completely. Fougasse is now my "fast bread" add some saussion sec, rosemary, garlic and sprinkle with coarse salt to elevate it even further.
I admit I'm middle aged though.

[underground]

Get Richard Bertinet's book Dough, then throw the bread maker in the bin

Dan Lepard's The Handmade Loaf is the one I have and love, and I never found keeping a sourdough starter going much of a chore TBH. But the making of a sourdough loaf is a time intensive process, if only in the time it takes to get the sponge going and the several times you have to be in the house ready to work the dough...
Making a white loaf from scratch using dried yeast is loads easier but most of the time I find I just can't be bothered, If I'm honest. That said the bread is so much better than what the breadmaker turns out, in my experience which is always a little bit claggy / dense and a small loaf that's a bit of a pain to slice and creates a bit of wastage due to the blade hole and awkward crust. It's still preferable to buying warburton's (apart from when it's needed for bacon / sausage sarnies).
I'd definitely ignore the book that comes with the machine and just chuck in whatever quantities you need for a normal loaf, select the best match setting for that loaf and see how it goes....

[lagerstarfish]

well,

I am outraged that this was not posted in the "food and drink" board and not one of the moderators has seen fit to move it there

I'll be writing a stiff letter to the Insect Overlords and am seriously considering asking them to delete my account

this sort of shabby attitude is not what I pay my subscription fees for

next thing we know there'll be people posting about toproping in the bouldering section - and that's just how Hitler got started

yours in exasperation

Outraged from Heeley

[tomtom]

:p

[rich d]

sorry to repeat the post, but thought I'd actually add the pictures properly (before slackers attacks me) of some of my bread pr0n selfies.

These were all done using the bertinet book recipes

cider bread



bacon and red onion rye bread



Walnut rye bread



and a couple of non rye (sorry) garlic and rosemary fougasse, baguette and epis



and a proper epis for dipping into baked camembert with a sancerre

[Zods Beard]

I've got into baking / bread making recently. I'm really hoping that this isn't the onset of middle age.

Join the club.

I've been making my own bread for about a year now. I've been using the River Cottage bread book, lots of basic bread recipes and very easy to understand.

Chris is right about using a dough hook, makes it a lot easier if you let the mixer bring the dough together and finish by kneading by hand. Generally the wetter the dough the lighter the bread or so I've found.

Keeping a sourdough starter is not too tricky, keep it in the fridge and make sure you take it out a few days before use and give a good feed to get it fizzing away by baking time. It is very labour intensive though.

Make sure you've got good quality flour, yeast etc, I use the Dove Farm's organic stuff.

Top tip - Oil the surface when kneading the bread instead of using flour so you keep the texture of the bread.

[tomtom]

Thanks for all the above posts - I have in the past few days been experimenting and have discovered that...

All yeast is not equal... it seems that you need to 'calibrate' your yeast quantities a little... I got some yeast (IDEAL FOR BAKING BREAD AT HOME AND FOR BREAD MACHINES) from the Co-Op - and was using recipe recommended amounts - 1 tsp etc.. for 500gm flour loaf.. and it was flat.. tried proving longer, more water (just went sloppy), warming the water etc.. then read the yeast packet and it suggested one sachet (at least 2-3 tsp) for a 500g flour loaf.. Tsk...

[rich d]

Thanks for all the above posts - I have in the past few days been experimenting and have discovered that...

All yeast is not equal... it seems that you need to 'calibrate' your yeast quantities a little... I got some yeast (IDEAL FOR BAKING BREAD AT HOME AND FOR BREAD MACHINES) from the Co-Op - and was using recipe recommended amounts - 1 tsp etc.. for 500gm flour loaf.. and it was flat.. tried proving longer, more water (just went sloppy), warming the water etc.. then read the yeast packet and it suggested one sachet (at least 2-3 tsp) for a 500g flour loaf.. Tsk...

You usually need a lot less fresh yeast. I never warm my water or add sugar or honey to the yeast.
If it's fresh yeast I crumble it into the flour then add the water. If it's dried yeast then I stir it into the flour then add my water. I stopped per-mixing the yeast sugar and water when I started using French fold instead of traditional British kneading.
I'll sometimes make my dough and leave it in the fridge overnight for a very slow rise, supposedly this gives the bread more flavour, but sometimes it fits into my life.
My classic white is 500g of strong white bread flour, 10g of salt, 10g of fresh yeast (or about 12g of dried yeast) then add 350ml of water.
Turn the oven up to full, bung some water in to steam a crust, then turn down to 215c until it sounds hollow.

[rich d]

Tried a cranberry and walnut dark rye bread (more rye than white for once), to get into the Christmas mood over the weekend. Pretty bloody good if you like the heavier breads, with the dried cranberries going almost jam like and the walnuts giving a great crunch. Was fantastic the next morning toasted with butter. 



it's upside down, as I posted it to twitter after a few glasses of wine.

[shurt]

Been making lots of bread the last week or two. Have been enjoying it a lot. Has anyone ever used a stone in the oven to put loaves on? I've read you can just use a paving slab rather than buy something specific which can be very expensive.
I've been putting the proved loaves onto a preheated baking tin or sheet on a silicon sheet so i don't have to move the loaves and loose some of the second rise.
Is this preheating of the thing the loaf is put on really necessary and would a stone help?

[rich d]

My mum's got one, that she uses for pizzas. I didn't notice any difference to be honest. I use a non stick baking tray with a ceramic core from tesco for not a lot, it's bigger and easier to handle than my mum's baking stone. Don't notice much difference between that and the thin normal baking trays I was using before.

[fatkid2000]

I've not really got into to proper bread making - however have a stone to cook pizzas on. Make me own dough for bases and works really well for those - just stick it in the oven for 20 mins on max. Then cook the pizzas.
Mine is a paving slab cut to size at the local builder merchant.

Your bread looks epic.

[Tom de Gay]

Got a 15 year old sourdough starter from my dad last Christmas and have made a loaf most weekends this year. I use a leftover large format tile from when we did the bathroom, put it in a cold oven, then whack it up to max heat. The dough goes straight on this. I think you need the radiant heat to give it the oven spring, and the slight porosity seems to help too. Previous efforts with a preheated roasting tin had a weird dampish crust on the bottom.

Recent additions are a proving basket and a dough scraper (for washing up), both of which save a lot of faff.

The starter seems to be pretty much maintenance free. Just chuck in a bit flour and water every so often and it's happy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[underground]

I had a black granite worktop saver from Wilko, think it cost about £12. Just cut/scraped/washed the foam feet off it and tend to leave it in the oven all the time. I know that without it, the oven really struggles to get 250deg and above, probably more importantly it only loses 10deg when I open the door (as told to me by a probe thermometer I use for brewing).

[chris20]

I think a pizza stone makes a big difference, it keeps the heat better than a baking tray and dries the base out nicely for a nice thin crispy crust.  The misses always notices the difference if its been made on a baking tray.

[tomtom]

A report on my breadmaking activity and some observations...

Despite being one of Satans minions and using a heathen breadmaker, I have found I've had to do quite a bit of fiddling around with recipes..

There seems to be quite a variation in the strength/quality/capability of different types of flour and yeast... The standard web and machine instruction recipes left me with flat heavy loaves, and by progressively increasing yeast content up to just under double the reccomended amounts it starts working fine and giving me a lovely product.

The flour is also variable from brand to brand in relation to amount of yeast needed.. Despite trying a range of very nice looking stone ground wholewheat flours from various places, the stuff that works best is bog standard Allison flour, and Sainsburys own cheapy strong wholewheat flour..

MrsTT senior (aka Mum) said it may be something to do with low gluten levels in UK harvested wheat this last year... not sure if I believe her - but may explain why I'm having to pump up the yeast levels....

[tomtom]

Bump.

Been making our own bread for a few years now - usually using supermarket flour and yeast. This worked well for what we needed - but supplies of both are running low and in hard/infrequent supply.

Does anyone here have any recommendations/tips for bulk (ish) whole meal flour brands/suppliers and yeast too? (It’s normally 16kg sacks non?).

Or delving into the world of making my own fermenting agent!!!!

[teestub]

Have you got a loose food/refill shop near you Tom? I know people have been successfully getting flour from these sorts of places when struggling elsewhere.

I checked a few of the larger flour providers a couple of weeks ago and they were all booked up.

Took about 2 weeks for my starter to get going properly as our house is so cold!

[tomtom]

Cheers Tim - good idea, the Unicorn in Chorlton probably does - but I’m avoiding as much going into shops as possible at the moment (only been in a couple in 4 weeks) hence delivery etc...

The whole sourdough / culture / starter thing sounds fun - but I’m just after a boring solution at the moment. That little tin of yeast that “lasts months” is getting near the bottom!!

[chris20]

Bump.

Been making our own bread for a few years now - usually using supermarket flour and yeast. This worked well for what we needed - but supplies of both are running low and in hard/infrequent supply.

Does anyone here have any recommendations/tips for bulk (ish) whole meal flour brands/suppliers and yeast too? (It’s normally 16kg sacks non?).

Or delving into the world of making my own fermenting agent!!!!

I managed to get a delivery slot from Shipton mill, had to keep logging onto their site over about a week before I managed to get one and ended up ordering 35 kg of flour - they sell 16kg bags.

I started a sourdough starter about 6 months ago, it does make good bread and pizza - the perfect loaf website is very good for all things sourdough. Reckon you should be able to create and maintain a starter from some dried yeast to speed up the process

[tomtom]

Cheers Chris - bit the bullet and got 500g of yeast online yesteday (£15!!! 3x regular prices) - that should last us 18 months! Will check out for the flour. Good tip.

[Yossarian]

At the risk of sounding like a lockdown cliche, I’d have a go at sourdough. It doesn’t take any more work - it’s more a case of starting one day and finishing the next, or sometimes the day after.

Wholemeal only would be v heavy, but you can sift (some of) the bran out, and then chuck that on top before putting it in the oven.