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AnCap, AeroCap, etc. (Read 50165 times)

petejh

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#50 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 07:37:13 am
YES! That's more like it  ;D

The intensity looks almost about right but I'd match the rungs on the way back down instead of hand over hand - it'll let you stay on task for longer. 3 x reps of 1.30mins on/2.30 off is what youy could aim for - failing before the end of the last rep. Once you can do that, up the rep time to 2mins.

Horrible innit!

Nibile

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#51 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 10:13:02 am
The intensity looks almost about right but I'd match the rungs on the way back down instead of hand over hand
Yes, was thinking about it! Cheers.

Sasq, I think I pump out.

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#52 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 04:28:18 pm

 :thumbsup:
Then I second Pete.  Stick with it and then gains'll come. 

Nibile

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#53 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 05:17:26 pm
:thumbsup:
Then I second Pete.  Stick with it and then gains'll come.
What if, instead of pumping out, I power out?
As I still am not sure I know the difference.

kelvin

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#54 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 05:51:03 pm
My left arm pumps out often - feels like it could explode to be honest but when I power out, it's an empty shell feeling, like I just couldn't do any more. If I pump out, then I feel like I could do more but my arms so solid, that's what's stopping me.

Two very distinct feelings and I guess that's what others describe as powering out and pumped out. I might be wrong tho  :)

petejh

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#55 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 17, 2013, 10:10:03 am
Yep this ^

Pumped = fingers uncurling involuntarily and a completely locked-solid forearm due to lactic acid intolerance; even though you have the strength/power to move your hand from one hold to the next, your fingers won't allow you to grip the hold.
Powered out = not having the strength/power to do the next move in a series of difficult moves; fingers aren't uncurling   involuntarily and you are still capable of holding the next hold, but overall you don't have the energy to link the moves.

Nibile

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#56 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 17, 2013, 12:03:38 pm
Thanks guys. Definitely I pump out.

not having the strength/power to do the next move in a series of difficult moves;

Sorry, I could not resist.

Probes

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#57 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 03:43:56 pm
Thread resurrection.. Would love to know how yuo got on with these foot on exercises Nible..? Did you get the route done?
Can i pick your brain?
I'm about to start a very similar thing, foot on laddering, planned for 2x 2 month blocks, doing exercises twice a week. Exercises in a sess being (2.30sec on 2.30rest x 4) 20 min rest, repeat 3 times. Is this similar?
How did you get on with adding/maintaining at the same time, your max finger strength? Or did it drop off?

I'm trying for a route that has about 2 mins of clibing at ok ish PE for me into 2 or 3 moves that are at my near maximum crimp strength. Struggling to find a strategy for training specifically to do that.. Any ideas much appreciated.
Probes

Nibile

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#58 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 04:20:20 pm
Hey! I've been wanting to get back on this topic for ages, but I'm so confused that I never did it. So, beware, because if you pick my brain you pick a very confused one.
Briefly said, I almost completely stopped training PE, in terms of:
foot on laddering;
laps on problems with as little rest as possible between laps.
I only did a few sessions in which I would climb those same problems I used to do three laps on, but instead of doing laps I would pause for 5 seconds on every move. They're 12 moves long, so with movements, feet positioning etc. it would add up to roughly 1'30".
I kept doing very short sessions of foot on campusing with 8 kg on, aimed at power and crimp strength, that I recently teamed with the lock off excercises in the video about core training that I posted a while ago.
I tweaked my fingerboard routines, doing back3 one arm dead hangs, and normal half crimp dead hangs with added weight.

Then I've done a few sessions of paused reps one armers, and some front lever pulls.

This work, somehow improved my PE endurance for good. I consistently get to hold 26 on my project, while before I struggled to get to 21/22, I fall, I chalk up and I finish it.
I am more efficient and more powerful. I can shake out where before I struggled to stay put.
Not only this, but I definitely increased my open handed strength, and I found myself able to one arm hang the small monos with my middle finger, left and right.

So, basically I have no idea.
I haven't tried foot on laddering recently because it was still to hot here, may give it a go now that it's cooler.
For sure trained for less time, but at a much higher intensity.
You can find a lot here:











I hope this helps.
Opinions?







Stu Littlefair

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#59 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 05:09:45 pm
"I would climb those same problems I used to do three laps on, but instead of doing laps I would pause for 5 seconds on every move. They're 12 moves long, so with movements, feet positioning etc. it would add up to roughly 1'30"

Depending on the rest you had between problems, and their difficulty this is classic short an cap territory. If they were very hard and you failed on many or most it's verging on an pow (whatever that is).

So I'm not surprised your power endurance has improved. Also, you'll see improvement on a 30 move circuit if you've got stronger, even if your PE has stayed the same.

Nibile

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#60 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 05:34:33 pm
"I would climb those same problems I used to do three laps on, but instead of doing laps I would pause for 5 seconds on every move. They're 12 moves long, so with movements, feet positioning etc. it would add up to roughly 1'30"

Depending on the rest you had between problems, and their difficulty this is classic short an cap territory. If they were very hard and you failed on many or most it's verging on an pow (whatever that is).

So I'm not surprised your power endurance has improved. Also, you'll see improvement on a 30 move circuit if you've got stronger, even if your PE has stayed the same.

Cheers Stu.
The pause between each rep was as short as possible, just sit down, chalk up, go. Around 10 to 14 seconds.
I found the other excersise more effective.
The problems I used are easy, around 6c+, but the circuit has easy moves as well.

Nibile

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#61 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 05:43:33 pm
Edit: what leaves me perplexed is that I did very few of those PE sessions. I only trained power, so my progress is probably due to just being stronger on the moves.

Nibile

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#62 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 06:00:32 pm
Another thing that I recently changed is my warm up, both for power sessions and for the circuit.
Now I also want to do some hip hinges and one legged squat, concentrating on activating all the posterior chain, especially hamstrings and glutes.
It seems to have a great recruitment power.
For the circuit I do the same, then I do 1/3 of my usual foot on campusing session (power) the I get on the circuit.

nai

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#63 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 23, 2014, 06:31:06 pm
Thread resurrection.. Would love to know how yuo got on with these foot on exercises

I'm about to start a very similar thing, foot on laddering, planned for 2x 2 month blocks, doing exercises twice a week. Exercises in a sess being (2.30sec on 2.30rest x 4) 20 min rest, repeat 3 times. Is this similar?
How did you get on with adding/maintaining at the same time, your max finger strength? Or did it drop off?

I'm trying for a route that has about 2 mins of clibing at ok ish PE for me into 2 or 3 moves that are at my near maximum crimp strength. Struggling to find a strategy for training specifically to do that.. Any ideas much appreciated.
Probes

I've been foot-on campussing periodically for a few years now and it's great for developing a really deep, burning pump. Like Nibs does with his circuit, I pause 4 seconds on each hold, this makes it much harder but much more appropriate I think, I reckon just laddering without stopping has too much non-contact time involved and too much recovery built-in.  Certainly made far better gains pausing.

I now use it as a supplemental exercise performed after circuits or 4x4s because while it gets you pumped it doesn't get you powered out like those do and it sounds like you're going to need that umph left at the end of you're sequence. 

I'll aim for eight reps of a linked circuit but stop when I hit power failure, could be 6-10 depending on whether I've got the timing right, followed by rest then 8 reps of FoC or until forearm meltdown.

If you haven't already it might be worth downloading abarro's Training pdf.

Probes

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#64 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 24, 2014, 03:16:56 pm
Nice one, yes you do look considerably more powerful on those circuits. You can never have enough power eh :)
Think i'm going to try out the long hangs between moves straight away with the foot on laddering, i think this has hit the nail on the head, in the past as I've got more tired I've tended to move quicker, it has never occurred to me that in reality your possibly getting a bit of recovery/less loading, shared contact time. Its obvious but never occurred either that I should get a metronome on the job.
I think with your circuits NIble they are quite techy, for this sort of training anyway? with the foot moves and body positioning, so I guess they've become quite well dialled, but also are open to errors and minor fuck ups whilst doing them, I'm trying to eliminate fuck up potential, i've a habit of forgetting where I am quite often, especially lapping routes for the upteenth time, so ultra simple and measured is the way I think.

Nibile

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#65 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 24, 2014, 04:15:09 pm
I think with your circuits NIble they are quite techy,
I thought I would never hear that in my whole life.

nai

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#66 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 25, 2014, 06:08:01 pm
Recommend Impetus, a free app but loads of functionality for creating interval workouts.


honroid

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#67 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 25, 2014, 10:03:52 pm
Or. Chuck a stool under the board to put your feet on, rather than a foot hold....?

Nibile

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#68 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2015, 11:44:44 am
Topic resurrection.

I have completely neglected PE in the last year: mostly due to having knee surgery and lots of work committments I never figured out any chance to get back to the route project; Summer temps made trying my board circuit project impossible, so I focused on power (could you tell?).
But Autumn is here, and I still want to do both the route and the circuit.
So yesterday after some rather feeble efforts on my bouldering projects, I gave a go to foot on campusing. Same rungs and foothold as ever, managed two sets of 1'15" and 1'10" of continuous going up and down until complete forearms failure. 7' rest in between sets. I think it's not too bad. The rungs felt like jugs, and I could briefly shake out between moves. I had done hard isolation moves and short links before.
Having said that, I was wondering if going to failure for a few sets is the way to go, or if I should do more sets stopping shy of failure and getting incomplete rests, let's say 6 sets of 45" with 2' rests (numbers are a guesstimation).
Another thing I was thinking is putting a very good rung on top to have a decent rest without stepping off and maybe simulating clips.
I guess that all the above can take place in a complete PE program, but how would you PE experts figure it out?

Maybe doing more of the shorter laps after bouldering and going to failure on dedicated sessions? Or the opposite?
Would putting a better rung on top screw the intensity required for the route?

Anyway, forearms still pumped today.
The fact that after the climbing I did a new barbell complex with snatch and carries is completely unrelated.
Cheers.

petejh

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#69 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2015, 12:02:07 pm
Woah there beast step back..

What does your project consist of? Number of moves, angle, shake-outs, time on route at redpoint pace, time on each hold. Then do on the foot-on campussing only what the route requires, but a little harder and a little more structured/recordable. If the goal for training PE is sending a specific route, then train specifically for it.

Nibile

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#70 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2015, 12:18:51 pm
That is a good idea, obviously.
Unfortunately, while the circuit is well clear in my mind, the route is quite blurry.
The circuit, as in the "Minus four" video posted on this topic a year ago, consists of 30 moves on good holds, with a couple of bad shakeouts on incut holds, but always on bad feet. Very body taxing. The moves are short so there's little time in between them to get a micro shake. The hardest moves are in the last third of the circuit. Very continuous.

The route is a roof, roughly 20 moves, with a couple of easier clips in the first half and a couple of hard ones in the second half.
Super powerful on incut edges and a few blobs, heel and toe hooks.
Managed to try it for 15 minutes five or six years ago, and for 30 minutes one year and half ago...
Don't ask why not for longer.
It should last around 2 minutes on redpoint, in my case probably 2'30" or 2'45" since I used to climb quite slowly on a rope due to sheer terror and will of dominating each move.

I'm at the start of the training PE wise, so I would like to keep it general to reap as many gains as possibile before going more surgical.

petejh

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#71 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2015, 12:46:37 pm
I can't comprehend blurryness.  ;D


Wouldn't the best training for the circuit consist of trying the circuit?

Can you build a replica of the route on your board, or at least a blurry version - i.e. in 4 or 5 seperate up problems? Jump off after each one then straight back on to the next one. Not perfect, because you've introduced a 2 or 3 second 'shake' in between each section, but quite specific. Alternate one of these PE 'boulder-route' sessions with a PE foot-on campuss session every other, 3 times per week for 5 weeks. Drop all the pure power training while PE'ing, and then drop the PE and resume the power for a week before going forth to slay the muthafucker.

Nibile

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#72 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2015, 02:00:13 pm
Re: the circuit. Yes, I've improved lots on it from just trying it, but then I got stuck at around 24/26 moves and didn't progress any further. It seemed as if I had reached my potential. Forearms frozen solid.
I'd been employing the problem lapping before, but I figured out that between each lap the pause was closer to 13/15 seconds rather than 3. I have to crawl down to the bottom of the board, chalk up and set up. I found greater improvement from doing the very same problems pausing 5 seconds on every move for roughly 1'30" of continuous climbing.

Re: the route. The above is still valid. I feel that I can recover quite fast on the ground, for doing a few more moves, but on the board it's a completely different thing.
I can't drop power training a) because I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did and b) because the route has an 8a boulder crux and it's all roof, with no good rests.
I need high power and some endurance.
So, that said, what do you all think specifically about fuguring out the foot on campusing, in the terms of my previous post from today? Going to failure or not, etc.?
Cheers.

Stu Littlefair

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#73 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 14, 2015, 08:03:25 am
I've got some advice Nibs but you're not going to like it! How long are you on the circuit for? Maybe 2 mins?

If so, it's likely you stopped improving because you reached the limit of what can be done on purely anaerobic endurance.

I think you need to increase your aerobic endurance to be more balanced. My recommendation is to stop doing all the lifting and do 10 mins on, 10 mins off on a board or fingerboard with your feet on the ground. Do that for 6-8 weeks and then start trying the circuit again


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#74 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 14, 2015, 10:25:56 am
I've got some advice Nibs but you're not going to like it! [...]
Alternatively Nibs could first try to make a significant improvement in strength... but I would venture a guess that is a way slower and much less sure way to improvement for him...

 

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