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AnCap, AeroCap, etc. (Read 50176 times)

T_B

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#25 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2013, 07:48:05 pm

As usual, suggestions are welcome.

A tactic I was shown that has worked well for me on circuits is to start at say move 5 so that you complete the 30 move circuit pumped/powered out, then work backwards, starting at move 4, then 3 etc. Good for motivation rather than falling off the same move later in the circuit if/when you hit a bit of a redpoint crux.

Also, this circuit looks good for forearms, but the first half or so doesn't seem to have many bigger moves. Probably stating the obvious, but does it replicate the moves on the route you're trying?

Tommy

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#26 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2013, 09:00:52 pm
Hi Nibs,

A few ideas:

1. Moves look a bit too small as TB said.
2. Don't work hard circuits from the front half - work them from the end half. I.e. do end 15 moves, then if successful do end 20 moves, then end 25 moves and so on.
3. As you'll be (at a guess) around 2min30 on a successful circuit, you're actually going to be working your aerobic power the hardest (although you'd need a reasonable underlying AnCap - it can't be complete pants or you'll be trouble).
4. So you actually want to focus on AeroPow the most.

There's small issue though.... improving your AnCap = reduced AeroPow
                                             improving your AeroPow = reduced AnCap

You can't the best of both worlds! So......... if you apply logic to your scenario you need your AeroPow to be best (due to the time of effort with intensity) and AnCap to be slightly reduced (high AnCap with inadequate AeroCap and capillarization will result in horrendous performance) by dropping most of the AnCap work during this phase.

But...... you do want to be feeling as strong as possible on the moves. So I'd go, lots of power and strength work on individual moves + aeropow training.

Hope that helps a bit  :)

Nibile

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#27 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 13, 2013, 11:41:38 pm
Cheers, I really appreciate it!
The reason of the small moves is that those are more or less the best holds on the board, any other try to set long problems, resulted in something too difficult. I could do bigger moves but downclimbing gets very hard, due to the steep angle and to the footholds.
As said, I still have to give the route a full go. Hopefully soon. Until then, it's just guessing: even discovering if I can or can not manage the single moves in isolation, will be a fundamental part of the process.
So, no, it doesn't replicate the route.

Thanks again, keep them coming.

Nibile

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#28 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 14, 2013, 02:39:31 pm
So, if I get it right, you suggest to keep doing lots of power stuff for the hard moves of the route, and lots of long, easy stuff for pure endurance and capillarization, skipping power endurance (for which I do laps on problems, as per other video).
Is this right?

Tommy

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#29 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
October 14, 2013, 04:43:13 pm
Well, it depends on your timescales I suppose!

If you have 6months+ then yes, go back to doing a conditioning and aerobic base (which would be complimented by a base of AnCap work). Then build on top with the stuff in the next paragraph....

If you have a couple of months, then you're going to have to make do with the best that you can which means do the power work and do the aeropower work.

Nibile

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#30 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 11:46:35 am
Update and questions.
I keep training and I have improved my pathetic PE. This is week 12.
I had set two 12 moves long problems at the beginning of the training: the first one is a bit easier and featured in the video in the first page here; the second one a bit harder, in this video here.


In the normal session I do two sets of three laps on problem one, then three sets of three laps on problem two: the video shows the second set of the second problem. I now fall on the last moves of the last lap of the last set of the session. Before I used to fall also on the first problem.
I had also set a test 30 moves long circuit. I tried it yesterday, did two laps, gained 4 holds, now I fall on move 26. Before I used to fall at around 18. 

What now?
My ideas:
- go on like this, no changes;
- start using a 2 kg weightbelt;
- make the problems harder;
- try and reduce the rests between the laps.

What do you think?
Cheers.

petejh

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#31 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 12:30:41 pm
How many times per-week are you training PE? 12 weeks seems a long time if you're prioritising power endurance - it takes around 6 weeks of focused PE torture to make significant gains. Or are you trying to keep strength as well?

Have you tried the route you're training for and noticed any difference yet?


Nibile

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#32 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 01:39:43 pm
I train PE along with power: the route I want to do is short and the moves must be hard: I've only tried the first half of it a few years ago, and never went back. Still have to see if I can do the single moves on the second part, hence the power training.
I generally try and do one or two PE sessions per week. One can be trying the test circuit.
I have improved lots, and given that I don't know when I'll be able to go and try it, I'd better step my training up! As my training partner said, "Keep training like this, so instead of trying the route, you'll climb it!"

petejh

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#33 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 01:49:10 pm
Cool. Sounds interesting - would be psyched to see footage of the route! What sort of difficulty do you think it is?

A good benchmark to test your PE is foot-on campussing - 4 reps of a set time with a set rest in-between -  i.e. 4 reps of 2mins.30secs with 2mins30secs rest between reps. (I know I always go on about it). It's very specific.

Nibile

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#34 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 01:53:10 pm
Cool idea. Do you use a very tall campus board  :smart: or do you downclimb or do you leave feet on same footholds and just go up and down a few rungs?

petejh

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#35 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 03:31:33 pm
I use a standard campus board but you only need the first 4 rungs. You keep one foot on something so you're in a comfortable popsition - I use the low brace on a chair. Go up hand over hand, match the 4th rung. Go back down matching each rung. Swap feet at the bottom rung and repeat. Keep going for the time set - 2 mins is a good start point but should increase this quite quickly. That's one rep.
Have a set rest time - start with either the same time on or 30 seconds more. You should fail in burning agony before the end of the 4th rep - if you can complete 4 reps it's not hard enough.

As soon as you can complete the 4th rep, either:
drop the rest time by 15 seconds
or
increase the time-on by 15 seconds
or
go to smaller rungs.

3 different ways to vary the intensity - choose what seems most relevant to your goal. Sounds like smaller rungs is where you want to aim for.

Sasquatch

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#36 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 05, 2013, 04:38:30 pm
I would do one of two thigns, either as Pete suggested move to foot-on campusing or set new problems.  One issue you run into with working problems is the movement engrams get so dialed they problem becomes too easy for PE.  That's one reason I really love the foot-on campusing.  You may get a tiny bit of engram training, but the movement is so simple and short, you can get the most insane forearm burn I've ever had while climbing. Knowing how much you like consistancy and measurability when training, foot-on campusing is great. 

That said if the route you're aiming for has a bunch of really big movement, then what foot-on campusing doesn't do is build PE in your arms or back. Its a straight up forearm burner.  Even if you decide not to go down the path of using foot-on campusing as a means of PE training, I'd highly recommend using it as a test to gauge training effect.

Cheers! and it sounds like you're seeing substantial improvement.

Nibile

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#37 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 08, 2013, 08:08:00 pm
So, as suggested I tried some feet on campusing. I made a flat and an incut foothold, thinking the latter would be super good. It isn't. The rungs are 2 cm deep and being on a 53 degree board they feel hard to me.
There is no way I can work PE unless I use bigger rungs (that I don't have and don't know where to put should I buy them) or a bigger foothold. I'll try to make it tomorrow, and I mean a real, beefy foothold this time.
Anyway despite everything I managed to put in a good session yesterday, doing 22 sets on the minute. Forearms were fine at the end, but fingers, back and core felt really worked. It's a very fun session that I'll repeat regularly. Set number 22 on the video. Thanks for the suggestions!


Sasquatch

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#38 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 09, 2013, 04:14:11 pm
You're right about no way you're gonna work PE on those rungs on that board.  I'd guess even a bigger foot won't really help.   :-\


Nibile

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#39 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 09, 2013, 04:46:45 pm
Or I just keep trying until Ican train PE on those rungs!!!
 :punk:

Sasquatch

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#40 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 09, 2013, 05:12:26 pm
Or I just keep trying until Ican train PE on those rungs!!!
 :punk:

Let me know when you get there. I have confidence it won't be that long :)

Nibile

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#41 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 09, 2013, 05:23:37 pm
You're too kind beast.
Anyway I'll make a new foothold and I'll report back.
The journey is the destination, isn't it?

Nibile

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#42 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 12, 2013, 12:22:37 pm
Ok, so I made the new foothold yesterday, this time a big beefy incut ledge.
Things obviously changed a lot, and I was able to complete - at the end of a power system session - three laps up and down.
I felt it a lot more on the forearms, and it's still a very good core workout.
Still far from the 2 minutes mark, but I'll try again when fresh.
Cheers!

Sasquatch

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#43 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 12, 2013, 04:22:25 pm
About how long were you able to hang on?  I think of PE training as generally taking from 1-3 minutes, so 2 minutes is the optimal, but closer to 1min you are doing a blend of PE and Stength, while at 3 min you are more of a blend of PE and endurance.

petejh

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#44 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 12, 2013, 04:45:44 pm
Are you not able to to get to a wall with a proper campus board? Or alternatively put one up at home with the first 4 rungs? Like Sasquatch says you won't be able to do an optimal foot-on campus workout using that set-up - too steep and rungs too small. Or you could persist with it and get to the point where you can go up and down for 2-3 minutes by which time you'll be a 9a PE monster! Actually yes just persist!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 05:06:52 pm by petejh »

Sasquatch

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#45 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 12, 2013, 08:18:41 pm
Are you not able to to get to a wall with a proper campus board? Or alternatively put one up at home with the first 4 rungs? Like Sasquatch says you won't be able to do an optimal foot-on campus workout using that set-up - too steep and rungs too small. Or you could persist with it and get to the point where you can go up and down for 2-3 minutes by which time you'll be a 9a PE monster! Actually yes just persist!
:agree:
I'll be psyched to hear about Nibs new 10a route :)

Nibile

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#46 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 15, 2013, 11:55:52 pm
Another - unrequested - update.
I did a proper session today, just PE on the rungs. It went OK but the road is very very long.
I did three sets with the small foothold, going up and down for around 57 seconds.
Then one set using the small foothold and moving to the big one when I was fully pumped, lasting around 65 seconds.
Then one set using the big foothold from the beginning, at 69 seconds. At the end I was able to hang on for a bit more but couldn't move up.
So more or less a 15% difference from small foothold to big one.
For the future, I think I'll do 2 sets of each, instead of 3/1/1.
First set with small foothold in this video.
As usual, suggestions are welcome.
Cheers.


Sasquatch

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#47 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 12:05:59 am
Did you "pump-out" or "power-out"?

Let us know how the recovery goes.  I think if you're aiming for PE, I would just do all of the sets on the bigger foot for now.

Nibile

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#48 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 12:36:35 am
Did you "pump-out" or "power-out"?
Cough...
 :-\
 :-[
What's the difference?
I think I pumped out. Fingers locked, forearms swollen. Could not shake out due to rung size. In the first up/downs I could rapidly shake mid move. 

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#49 Re: AnCap, AeroCap, etc.
December 16, 2013, 01:13:16 am
Pumped out is basically the super deep burn in your forearms due to the lactic acid buildup, power out happens when your muscled actually run out of the short term energy needed for back to back hard sequences.  You don't really feel the "burn" when you power out

 

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